Technocracy and the Abraham Accords

GUESTS:
Alex Newman, CEO, Liberty Sentinel Media
Soeren Kern, Geopolitical Analyst and Managing Editor The Christian Worldview Journal

Front and center at Donald Trump’s inauguration were eight “Tech Titans,” the CEOs of the largest and most influential technology companies in the world, including Apple, Google, Meta, TikTok, OpenAI, Uber, Tesla, and Amazon. Each is reported to have contributed $1M to Trump’s inaugural fund.

Considering that several of them and/or their companies opposed or suppressed Trump and his supporters in the past, why were they there, sitting amongst Trump’s family members no less? And how should we interpret that all of them run tech companies, pushing new frontiers of artificial intelligence (AI), data collection, even transhumanism?

Alex Newman, international journalist at Liberty Sentinel Media and author of Indoctrinating Our Children to Death, will join us this weekend on The Christian Worldview Radio Program to explain what a technocracy is and how the exploding growth of AI fits into it. Alex will also interpret why Trump’s talk of acquiring Greenland and Canada is a hint at regional governance.

Later in the program, Soeren Kern, geopolitical analyst and managing editor of The Christian Worldview Journal will join us to continue our conversation from last week about how the Israeli-Hamas ceasefire and hostage release deal is the first step to restarting the Abraham Accords and the inevitable pressure on Israel to agree to a two-state solution.

Be sure to join us for a packed hour on national and world events!

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RELATED RESOURCE: Alex Newman joined us for a Speaker Series event in the Spring of 2024.  The event video is available on our YouTube channel

Transcript

Technocracy and the Abraham Accords
SATURDAY, FEBRUARY 01, 2025 08:00am CT

HOST: DAVID WHEATON:
Technocracy and the Abraham Accords. Those are the topics we'll discuss today right here on the Christian Worldview Radio Program, where the mission is to sharpen the biblical worldview of Christians and to proclaim the good news of Jesus Christ.

I'm David Wheaton, the host. The Christian Worldview is a listener-supported radio program. Our website is thechristianworldview.org and the rest of our contact information will be given throughout today's program. As always, thank you for your notes of encouragement, financial support, and lifting us up in prayer.

Front and center at Donald Trump's inauguration, were eight tech titans, the CEOs of the largest and most influential technology companies in the world, including Apple, Google, Meta or Facebook, TikTok, OpenAI, Uber, Tesla, and Amazon. Now, considering that several of them and or their companies opposed or suppressed Trump and his supporters in the past, why exactly were they there, sitting amongst Trump's family members no less, and how should we interpret that all of them run tech companies pushing new frontiers of artificial intelligence, AI, data collection, and even transhumanism?

Alex Newman, international journalist at Liberty Sentinel Media will join us today to explain what a technocracy is and how the exploding growth of AI fits into it. Alex will also interpret why Trump's talk of acquiring Greenland and Canada is a hint at regional governance.

Later in the program, Soeren Kern, geopolitical analyst and Managing Editor of the Christian Worldview Journal will join us to continue our conversation from last week about how the Israel-Hamas ceasefire and hostage release deal is the first step to restarting the Abraham Accords and the inevitable pressure on Israel to agree to a two-state solution.

Let's get straight to the interview with Alex Newman on Technocracy.

Alex, it's so good to have you back on the Christian Worldview Radio Program. Just want to start by reading a few sentences from a column in a publication called Tech.co. "Donald Trump's return to the U.S. Presidency has set a domino effect in the tech industry over the last few months. CEOs have quickly gotten in line since the November election, announcing new policies and ditching old features that cater to more 'liberal sensibilities.' Now the big tech support is in full swing with a parade of CEOs showing the world that the most innovative industry in the world is very much on board with this administration," the Trump administration, "and whatever it plans to do."

And then they listed who was actually present at Trump's inauguration. Elon Musk, the CEO of SpaceX and Tesla. Mark Zuckerberg, the CEO of Meta, which is Facebook, WhatsApp, they own Instagram as well. Jeff Bezos, of course the former CEO of Amazon, but I think ostensibly still runs that huge empire. Tim Cook, the CEO of Apple. And then Sundar Pichai, I think you pronounce it CEO of Google, which owns YouTube. And then the CEO of TikTok was there. Sam Altman, the CEO of OpenAI, was there along with the CEO of Uber.

So all these billionaires weren't just there. They all apparently contributed a million dollars each to the inaugural fund, likely to curry favor with Trump before his next run as president kicks off. Now again, as I mentioned, they weren't just there. They were sitting amongst Trump's family and chatting with one another in full view. Alex, is this unprecedented that this sort of jump on board of all these tech titans would take place at the beginning of a presidency like this? And how do you interpret this brotherhood of business billionaires and tech titans gathering together at Trump's inauguration?

GUEST: ALEX NEWMAN:
Well, first of all, thank you so much for having me again, David, it's wonderful to be with you. First and foremost, we need to understand that these tech bros, as they're often called, did not suddenly have some sort of epiphany and decide that, "You know what? We really love Trump. We really love the Republican Party. We're actually really conservative and sorry about censoring all of you guys and silencing you and demonizing you and re-ranking you and shadow banning." None of that happened. I think what is going on here is a very transparent attempt to curry favor with the man they understand is at this point, almost inevitably, unless God forbid something happens to him, going to be president for the next four years. They realize that he has a very, very strong mandate from the American people. And not only did he win a landslide in the Electoral College, but he won a huge victory even in the popular vote. And that was despite all of their best efforts.

We have to remember that four years ago, Mark Zuckerberg took away Donald Trump's ability to post anything on Facebook. The people running Twitter took away his Twitter account. Google, for years now, has rigged its algorithms to bury good information and good news on Donald Trump and promote liberal far-left anti-Trump hysteria masquerading as journalism. So we need to be clear here. These guys didn't suddenly wake up and decide they were Trump supporters. They're just grappling with the inevitable. They recognize they have a responsibility to shareholders to keep growing the company, to not get on the bad side of ostensibly the most powerful man in the world today. They know Trump's going to be making a lot of policy over the next four years. If his last term was any guide we're going to see some very, very significant moves on policy. And not all just coming by the way, through executive orders and edicts and regulations. A lot of this is going to come from Congress, from the courts. And Trump has an inordinate amount of influence right now.

So they recognize that for the long-term success of their business, for the long-term success of their plans, and they do have big plans that I know we'll get into later, they have to at least not make themselves targets. As the old Asian expression goes, "You don't want to be the nail that sticks up because you're going to get hammered down. So let's all pretend like we're okay with Trump here. Let's do an apology tour. We'll go on Joe Rogan and say, 'Oh, Joe Biden made me do it.'" But ultimately, I think these people believe exactly the same thing they believed before early November, and they're going to believe the exact same thing they believed then when Donald Trump leaves office.
HOST: DAVID WHEATON:
Alex Newman is our guest today here on the Christian Worldview of Liberty Sentinel Media. Now Alex, I saw a recent video podcast that you do daily where you had Patrick Wood on, who you consider to be one of the great technocracy experts in the world. I want you to make a definition first of what exactly is an oligarchic technocracy? It sounds like a big word. Can you define that for us?

GUEST: ALEX NEWMAN:
Technocracy is really an ideology. It's a way of thinking about governance. And so over the last few hundred years, especially in the Western world, we've kind of come to accept as the norm that people ought to have some involvement in the government, that we ought to have at the very least, some form of elected representation, some sort of constitution, and at least some sort of public participation in the policymaking process, in the governance process. Well, technocracy rejects that idea out of hand. People are dumb. People don't know what they need. People don't know what they want. If you leave them to their own devices, they'll do incredibly dumb things.

And so the technocracy movement was born almost a century ago at Columbia University. And the thinking was rather than having self-government or representative government or a constitutional republic, we need to move toward a model where the experts, the people who really know what they're doing, make all these kinds of decisions. And today we call them technocrats. The scientists, the engineers. And back then the argument was really efficiency. "This whole free market thing is not very efficient. Think about how many resources are being wasted by people on silly things that nobody really needs and silly business ideas that are going to fail. Wouldn't it be better if these super experts, who've been trained and are very competent in their field, wouldn't it be better if they made all the decisions?"

And of course, there are more people who believe that today than the amount of people who believed that in the 1930s, without any question. Now, when you add oligarchy to it, what you're really talking about here is a small group of individuals guiding this whole process. So in some ways, you might even say we've already moved a little bit in that direction. If you read our Constitution, it says all legislative powers are in the hands of a Congress. They're vested in a Congress. And then it goes to describe the Congress, two houses, et cetera. Today, and anybody who knows about how the United States government works will tell you this. We have rule largely by administrative agency, largely by regulation. The vast majority of the policies that affect our lives are not coming from elected members of Congress who voted on these things. They're coming from unelected appointed bureaucrats who are dreaming these regulations up. And we're talking thousands and thousands of pages of these on a constant basis, just a deluge of these.

So we're moving in that direction and there are very powerful people, including I think a lot of these tech bros, who think that is a superior model. So we see this very clearly now coming into view in the European Union where the European Commission largely acts as the executive and the legislative branch. And if the technocrats are not exposed and stopped, I think they're going to continue making progress eroding self-government and moving toward this technocratic vision of governance.

HOST: DAVID WHEATON:
And so you'd associate these tech titans who came to Trump's inauguration as being part of this movement, at least, if not pushing it themselves?

GUEST: ALEX NEWMAN:
Absolutely. And they may not think of themselves per se as technocrats, but some of them have long family histories. Elon Musk's grandfather was actually one of the original technocratic promoters. So these people have been around for a long time now. The movement got a really bad smell. There were some important scandals that happened at Columbia University when this thing was really starting to burgeon. But they never went away. One of their disciples, a guy by the name of Zibniew Brzezinski, people might recognize him. He was the National Security Advisor for Jimmy Carter. He really latched onto these ideas before he became a political figure. He was a professor at Columbia University where the technocracy movement was born. And he wrote a very important book. It was called Between Two Ages: America's Role in the Technetronic Era.

And he argues in this book that essentially the American model is obsolete. Free markets, self-government rule of law, strong private property rights. That is the old way of thinking. He does have some obligatory criticism for the mass murdering Soviet Union, but he does say that really this is the next step forward in human evolution. But what he eventually would like to see, and he explains this pretty clearly in his book, is a technocratic model of government where the experts will be making these decisions for us.

And so he was just an obscure professor at Columbia until he hooked up with David Rockefeller, one of the most powerful people in the world until he passed away some years ago. And together they created something called the Trilateral Commission, a very nefarious, very powerful, very elite group of individuals from North America, Europe, and Japan. And these guys laid out their vision of what they call a new international economic order, which they don't use the term technocracy, but the parallels are very obvious. And then they set about infiltrating the government. And if you look for example at the Biden administration, it was packed with members of the Trilateral. They usually resign right before they go into government, but it was packed to the gills with members of the Trilateral Commission. So this is an ideology that's alive and well, and it fundamentally is not compatible with the Christian-style civilization that we have developed in the Western world, at least over a period of many centuries.

HOST: DAVID WHEATON:
At first, I think a lot of people thought Trump was just being hyperbolic like he can be, his talk of that the US needs to obtain Greenland and even Canada, that will be our 51st state, and we need to take back the Panama Canal and change the name of the Gulf of Mexico to the Gulf of America. And you begin to think about, "Well, why is he trying to create this sort of North American big block, regional block?" Is that related to this concept of technocracy or is it really not much different than previous presidents who always talk about North American union between Canada, America and Mexico?

GUEST: ALEX NEWMAN:
That is such an important question, David, and I know eventually there's going to be a break, so you're just going to have to cut me off because there's so much to say about this, so I won't be offended when you do.
I think each of these proposals from Donald Trump needs to be considered on its own and on its own merits. Jimmy Carter's giveaway, the Panama Canal, I would argue was criminal. He had no right to do that. The American taxpayer paid for that. We lost huge numbers of American lives building that. That was totally unconscionable. There was no reason to give that to a communist strongman. The best thing you could say about it is it's one of the most incredible geopolitical own goals in all of human history. So I think Trump is right to want to regain control over this, especially when you consider the fact that the communist Chinese are now nominally running this thing and they've got major operations at both ends of it. So I think that's a very important thing for us to be talking about.

But to go back to the technocrat movement for a moment, one of the things that the technocrats started pushing back in the 1930s was the idea of a North American technate. And they had a very interesting drawing, they put it on the cover of one of their things, and it was actually a United North America going from Greenland and the upper reaches of Canada all the way down to Panama. And it would all be united under this North American technocratic government. Very interesting parallel there. Now, do I believe that Donald Trump is a technocrat who wants to hand over our system of government to an unelected cabal of tech bros? Absolutely not. But I don't think he knows the history here, and I think he's got people around him who some of them at least do believe in that broad vision.

Some of them may be well-intentioned, others I think not so much. And I think this is actually demonstrable. If you go back to his first term, there was an individual there called Robert Lighthizer. He was the U.S Trade Representative, but he was so much more than that. He was a member of the Council on Foreign Relations. I call that Deep State Headquarters here in the United States. And they have been obsessed with this idea, along with the Trilateral Commission, of regionalizing government, undermining national sovereignty and dividing the world up into these regional governments. Which by the way was a big project of Zibniew Brzezinski. So the European Union, of course, was the premier example of that, and it was supposed to be the model upon which the other governments would be based, but we're seeing this all over the world.

Putin is building the Eurasian Union. In Africa, the Africans are having an African Union imposed on them, although many of them don't even realize that. There's an African parliament, there's an African military. They're talking about bringing in an African currency, very similar to what we saw in Europe. Latin America has seen the emergence of a union of South American states. Southeast Asia has the Association of Southeast Asian Nations. So these regional blocks are popping up all over the world and anybody who believes that the people of the world just woke up one day and all suddenly decided they didn't want their nation anymore, they wanted to subvert their sovereignty for a regional government, is simply being silly. That's obviously an agenda coming down from the top.

So who is pushing this agenda? Well, the Trilateral Commission, the Council on Foreign Relations, The Bilderberg Group and others. They want to regionalize the world. And they have unfortunately used Trump to advance some of their objectives. So to go back to his first term, the USMCA was an absolutely critical piece of this. The North American integration Scheme really began with NAFTA. That was the first major concrete policy development. What it did was it set up North American tribunals, North American bureaucracies, North American regulation, very much akin to what we saw in Europe under the European Free Trade Agreement.
So the next big step forward was the USMCA, which expanded the number of areas that are now under the jurisdiction of these North American schemes, created new North American institutions, enshrined things that nobody ever would've believed Trump would've gotten behind, like sexual orientation and gender identity in this, what they call North American law, so really, really problematic. And I was actually part of these discussions. I was asked by one of Trump's advisors to create a memo on why this was such a terrible idea. And I did and I outlined very clearly where these ideas came from, where they were going, why they were so bad, and how even the things that Trump was being told, that this was going to be a big win for American business, a big win for American agriculture, were not true, just like we saw with NAFTA. That was just part of the marketing plan. It actually ended up devastating critical American industries. And USMCA think over the long term will probably do the same.

So I think Trump is being manipulated. He's one man. There's no way he can keep track of all these things. He's depending on his advisors and there's a lot of great people around him. I don't want to sound like I'm down on Donald Trump, but he's got some key people in his administration who are believers in this vision and I don't believe they're coming to him honestly and saying, "Hey, we should surrender American sovereignty for a North American Union." I believe they're telling him, "This is good for business, this is good for policy." And so I think all of this needs to be understood in that context.

Will they get a North American Union under Trump? Almost certainly not. Are they going to try to move the ball down the field? Absolutely. We're watching it play out right now. And I think the idea of Canada as a 51st state, first of all, we have to say just from a common sense perspective, terrible idea. We don't need millions of additional liberal voters joining our body politic in the United States. From a resource perspective, you might say, "Well, yeah, they've got a lot of energy, they've got a lot of natural resources that would be nice." But we can trade with them to accomplish those things. But what happens is when you say something like it should be a 51st state, then anything less than that seems moderate by comparison. "Well, we'll just form an economic union. We'll just drop the border and reduce tariffs so we'll have a one economic zone that's customs free." And that is exactly how these regional governments are being built. So I would encourage people to pay close attention here. This is hugely significant and the media is not going to explain this to you.

HOST: DAVID WHEATON:
When I start to hear regional formations being made, like the European Union and different parts of the world, and in America, the North American region, you start to think immediately to Revelation 17 where it says, "In the 10 horns, which you saw are 10 kings, who have not yet received a kingdom, but they receive authority as kings with the beast or the Antichrist for one hour. These have one purpose and they give their power and authority to the beast." And it's like you can see this, the world being divided into 10 regions with the Antichrist over the whole thing. It doesn't take very much squinting to see the world is kind of trying to get there and when is that actually going to happen? But when Trump starts to do something like this or talk about it, you get a little bit skeptical as to what exactly is going on.

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Welcome back to The Christian Worldview. I'm David Wheaton. Be sure to visit thechristianworldview.org where you can sign up for our weekly email, the Christian Worldview Journal, monthly print publication, order resources for adults and children, and support the ministry.

Our topic in the first half of today's program is the push for a technocracy and Alex Newman of Liberty Sentinel Media is our guest. Now I want to play a soundbite from that guest on your program. Patrick Wood, this technocracy expert, he talked about the impact and the influence of artificial intelligence or AI. We've all heard about it, but I don't think any of us are going to be able to fully process just how much this is going to change everything. Here's Patrick Wood on your program, Alex.

Audio Soundbite: Patrick Wood:
AI has progressed to a level where it can actually take over whole departments and corporations and the government and can even possibly be configured to take over the total operation of an agency itself. So this is going to be a big deal. Technocrats have a different mindset. They're very mechanistic. They don't view the world like we do, that we're a special creation of God.

HOST: DAVID WHEATON:
Okay, that was Patrick Wood on your program, Alex. So artificial intelligence, he's talking about it can basically going to be able to run, or maybe it even can now, entire agencies of government where decisions are being made by computer systems that are created by fallible man. Talk more about how artificial intelligence is a critical part of this technocracy, but it's really the enforcing or enactment of a worldview on society.

GUEST: ALEX NEWMAN:
I think there's a misconception out there about artificial intelligence as being some form of actual intelligence that's coming to sensible conclusions. It is ostensibly a computer program, although it's a very advanced computer program, and it is trained on certain data sets which color its output of course, and it is programmed as you pointed out, David, by fallible men. And not just fallible men. We are dealing with here men who have an open publicly expressed hostility to God, and to God's precepts and to God's people, and to basic rules and morals that God has put in place for the benefit of His creation. These are the people making these programming decisions.

And we've seen this so clearly time after time after time after time. It wasn't that long ago when the AI, the supercomputer AI, was telling us that it would be better to eradicate the human race in a thermonuclear war than to misgender Kaitlyn Jenner, a guy who I guess chopped off his private part and runs around in a dress. How any computer system could reach such a conclusion without being programmed by radical ideologues who are at war with reality is inconceivable.

So what we're dealing with here are people who have a very warped worldview, at least for those of us who believe the biblical worldview, programming technology that is vastly more powerful than I think any of us understand. Elon Musk, for example, has publicly said that if we refuse to merge with AI we are going to become obsolete. People like Yuval Noah Harari has said that AI will be able to produce the first holy book written by a superhuman intelligence. He has also said publicly that we are evolving into gods, but we're going to be better than the God of the Bible because we now have the ability to create inorganic life forms.

These are actually very profound statements when examined through a biblical lens. All you have to do is go back to Genesis Chapter Three and recognize first of all, we're dealing here with the oldest lie in the book, quite literally. "Ye shall be as God. You won't surely die." These people are talking about gaining immortality through AI. They're talking about becoming gods through AI. And so right away here, I think it should be very clear to all Christians that we're dealing with something satanic. That doesn't mean that the people programming these things are our enemies per se. What we're dealing with here is as the Apostle Paul explained, powers and principalities that are using and manipulating people.

So the people who are pushing this, they are a mission field. We are to love them. We are to bless them. We are to pray for them. But we need to understand here that we're now dealing with a whole new level. This isn't just a matter of policy preference or ideas about technology. We're now entering the realm of the metaphysical. We're entering the realm of things that I think even a lot of the smartest tech bros don't understand themselves. And I don't know exactly how this fits together with eschatology, with Revelation, with what we know is coming, but I think the implications are very, very clear and I think we need to watch this like a hawk.

HOST: DAVID WHEATON:
The first week or so of the Trump administration has a lot of people cheering, conservatives, Republicans, Christians, cheering. The border is being closed and illegal immigrants are being deported. He's taken all kinds of pro-life actions. I mean, even though he was kind of flipping in the run=up to the election on his stance on abortion and not super pro-life, like from the moment of conception, it would be hard to make a case that he's not the most pro-life president ever, just with all the different actions he's taken already. He's pushing back hard against the DEI leftist policies, the trans agenda. We're out of the Paris Climate Accords. through all these executive actions he's taking. Now, of course the next president, these aren't legal things put through Congress to put through so the next person can flip them back on, but he's done a lot of things that people are saying, "Go Trump. Rah, rah rah."

And we look at Trump as we've discussed him somewhat today, we think of him as a free market nationalist. America first, make America great again. Not a person who's a believes in a managed economy, a globalist set up in the world. I think it would be interesting to hear from you to do what's called a SWOT analysis, S-W-O-T, strengths, weaknesses, opportunities, threats, on how you analyze Trump.

GUEST: ALEX NEWMAN:
There's a lot to say here. I start by just reminding everybody what the Bible teaches on this, that God actually is the one who raises up leaders. The good ones, the bad ones, the ones we like, the ones we don't like, and so we are to pray for them. We are to ask God to work in them. We are to ask God to use them so that we can live peaceable and quiet lives. And so even though the people out there are tempted to hate him or curse him, I think we need to be very careful with that. The Bible teaches us that we need to be respectful of our leaders, we need to honor them, we need to give them what is due. And that applies just as much to Trump as it did to Joe Biden and as it would've to Kamala Harris.

I think the people who get too obsessed with the political process are the people whose hope is in the world. And we who love the Lord, we know that our hope is not in this world. And so regardless of what happens with any of this, the important thing is that Jesus Christ is Lord and that He is coming back and so we can praise Him and rest in that assurance.

But when we look at his strength, I think a lot of his instincts are very, very good. He's got this real inclination for trying to preserve American sovereignty, for trying to do what's right for the country. I do believe that he is genuine, when he says he loves America, I think he's genuine. And despite what the radical leftists and some of the more liberal Christians might tell you, there's nothing sinful about appreciating your own nation and wanting to be a good steward of the nation that God has placed you in. It was God's idea to divide the world up into nations. He expects us to be good stewards of what He has given us and He has blessed us as Americans beyond measure through the liberty, the prosperity, the incredible blessings that we have enjoyed here. And so I love that Trump is unapologetically in favor of the United States and our sovereignty and protecting our people and protecting our rights. That is what I think a godly leader should do.

He's also a very good negotiator. He's very good at getting what he wants in negotiations. And that of course could be a double-edged sword, but if he's sincere in his profession of love toward God and his profession of love toward our country and family and the values that we hold dear, then this is going to be very, very good for us. And I think we're seeing even just in the first week of his administration, we're seeing a lot of good fruit. We're seeing some of the wickedness turned back. We're seeing some of the wrongs from the previous administration made right. And so that's very, very encouraging.

When it comes to weaknesses, part of it is not necessarily a weakness in him, it's that nobody can truly follow everything that goes on in the federal government. The federal government is so huge. It's millions of people. And so Trump comes out of the business world and he's used to kind of what you see is what you get. People tell him the truth. People deal differently in business than they do in politics. I hope he learned a lot from his first term.

He also, if I could identify maybe a character trait that I think is a little bit dangerous when you're in a position like President of the United States, you sometimes think that you do know everything, that you can make the right decision in all cases, and sometimes that becomes dangerous. It sometimes even crosses over into pride and that is really easy for evildoers, from Satan all the way down to his minions, to manipulate. And I think we saw some of that in the first term with Operation Warp Speed, with the USMCA, and I could give plenty of examples. I think he understands a little bit better what he's going into this time around, but that is something that I think he needs to watch out for and the people around him need to keep their eyes on that.

When it comes to opportunities, he's already shown that he's going to do a lot of important stuff on the international level. He's gotten us out of the Paris Agreement. In fact, he's gone much further this time than he did in the first term, and I think that's very encouraging. We're seeing the same thing with the World Health Organization. We're seeing a radical reversal of the things that Joe Biden did during his administration and that is really, really encouraging. It will probably increase the standard of living in this country. It will help American industry. And it'll help American families just try to raise their children in a safe environment. So I'm grateful for that.

When it comes to threats, again, I would go back to the ability to manipulate somebody who maybe thinks that they know everything, that they can't be fooled, that they're the best negotiator on the planet. Unfortunately, we're dealing here not just with evil men, but with demonic forces from the pit of hell. Satan is significantly smarter than us. And his demons, many of them know the Bible really well, they are master manipulators, they are master deceivers. And so I think we really need to be in prayer for the president, for his advisors, for the people around him that these schemes, these deceptions, would fall on deaf ears and that Trump would stay on the straight and narrow, follow God's path for him and for our country. A lot coming at us over the next four years. I think it's going to be more of a whirlwind than we've already seen. But I would just encourage people, stay in the word, stay in prayer, do keep Donald Trump and his folks in prayer. We're really going to need it.

HOST: DAVID WHEATON:
I think that is just so well analyzed and so well said, Alex, especially about praying for this president because again, he's just a man. He's got a lot of power. He's got a lot of momentum right now. So we appreciate your balanced and good counsel, Alex, and thank you for coming on The Christian Worldview today. We always enjoy having you on the program. And our listeners need to pray for you as well and all you're doing because you're doing great work at Liberty Sentinel Media. Thanks so much.

GUEST: ALEX NEWMAN:
Thank you. It's an honor and I appreciate it and God bless you, sir.

HOST: DAVID WHEATON:
Alex Newman always provides such great insight and a biblical worldview. A link to Liberty Sentinel Media and his excellent book, Indoctrinating Our Children to Death, can be found at our website, thechristianworldview.org.

In this final segment, Soeren Kern, geopolitical analyst and Managing Editor of the Christian Worldview Journal, joins us to discuss where Trump stands on a two-state solution in Israel and how the pending Abraham Accords could be a significant step toward end times' prophecy.

So what do you think President Trump's position is on an Israeli state and also a Palestinian state, a two-state solution, side by side?

GUEST: SOEREN KERN:
Over the years, President Trump has repeatedly shifted his opinion about the two-state solution. He said in 2020, "I like the two-state solution. That's what I think works best." He unveiled a peace plan in 2020 based on a "realistic" two-state solution. He then sometimes stepped back from that and he said, "I'm not completely sure about the two-state solution. It's whatever the Israelis and the Palestinians want." He said, "I'd support a plan of peace and it can take different forms. There are other ideas than two-state, but I support whatever is necessary to get not just peace, but a lasting peace."

President Trump's Middle East Advisor, Massad Boulos, he's a Lebanese American, he said, "That a normalization deal between Saudi Arabia and Israel would establish a roadmap that would lead to a Palestinian state." He said this just a few days ago. And he said basically that a Palestinian state would be an important element of the talks between the US and Saudi Arabia regarding normalization deal. And he said it would be a priority for the Trump administration from day one.

Trump, during his inauguration speech, he said that he wants his legacy to be that of a peacemaker and he wants to stop all wars, in his words. He has repeatedly said over the years that he deserves to be awarded the Nobel Peace Prize for the 2020 Abraham Accords. Trump really wants this deal, this normalization deal with Saudi Arabia, because this is what is going to cement his legacy in history as the man who brings peace to the Middle East. My real question is, is Trump going to offer Israel a grand bargain that will force it into accepting a false peace?

HOST: DAVID WHEATON:
Let me just follow up with one question, Soeren, about a two-state solution. Where is the proposal that this actual Palestinian state would be within Israel? Would it be in what's called the West Bank? Where would it be in Israel?

GUEST: SOEREN KERN:
Palestinian state would obviously be part of Gaza, and it would be not all of the West Bank, Judea and Samaria in the biblical language. Now, when the Trump administration negotiated the Abraham Accords with United Arab Emirates in 2020, Israel committed to not annexing any territory from the West Bank for a period of four years. That's a very important detail of that because Israel promises that the land in the West Bank where there are a lot of Jewish settlers, that Israel would not annex any of that territory. And I'm quite sure that that would be a fundamental requirement by the Saudis that Israel makes the same commitment to the Saudis, that for a certain period of time, whether it's four years or however many years, that Israel will not annex any of these territories.

Now there's obviously a dispute over the future of a Palestinian state. Would it be in Ramallah? Would it be in Jerusalem, the capital I'm talking about? Would it be all of the territories that Israel controls right now after the 1967 war? Is Israel going to be allowed to retain some of that territory? What kind of a land bridge would there be between the West Bank and Gaza? There are all kinds of proposals. And so you can see the complexity of the details. The details really matter. But what I see is that if the Trump administration is really determined to get this done in four years, Israel could come under tremendous pressure.

I just want to add, this is a very important point, that I like President Trump. I am not an anti-Trumper. I like many of the people that he's named like Marco Rubio, as Secretary of State. I like the idea that President Trump sees a need for a strong America because strong America brings global stability, and the weak America that we've seen for the last four years has created so much of the instability that we're seeing in the Middle East and in Russia and Ukraine. I don't think that the Russians would've invaded Ukraine if President Trump were on office.

So I just want to add that I like President Trump, and I'm not trying to criticize him. It's just that on this particular issue where the United States is potentially forcing the Jewish state to make land concessions, that could go really bad for the United States, because God in the Bible promises that land to the descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. This is not a game that we're talking about, North Cyprus versus South Cyprus, North Korea versus South Korea, who controls what part. We're talking here about land promise that God made to Abraham, and it's very dangerous for the United States to be forcing the Jewish state into making concessions. Because what the Trump administration or the Biden administration or the Obama administration, all the administrations that have tried to force Israel into making land compromises, is you're really setting a confrontation between the United States and Almighty God Himself. And that is not a situation in which the United States wants to find itself.

HOST: DAVID WHEATON:
You're not making a prediction here, so I'm definitely not saying that. But here's what you have said you think could be a plausible situation that rolls out here, that you think that the Abraham Accords, again between Israel and many of the Muslim Arab states in the Middle East, was originally signed back in September '20 with just a few nations, but if it expands to the big one, Saudi Arabia, and then many others come on board, that that really could be you think potentially the peace treaty, that the Antichrist when he appears at some point either reaffirms or confirms with Israel. That's sort of the foundation of the peace in the Middle East, that the Antichrist would reaffirm someday with Israel.
Then you went on to say that if that is in fact the case that the rapture of the church and the restrainer being removed as scripture talks about, the restrainer being the Holy Spirit, that this would pave the way, because of a diminished America if the rapture happens with Christians gone or even maybe just even an economic collapse or something goes wrong in this country where our country's not able to be the guarantor of Israel's security anymore, where you'd get this Gog and Magog invasion that we see in the Book of Ezekiel. And this would be led by two countries that likely, as you just mentioned, won't be a part of the Abraham Accords, Turkey and Iran, the sworn enemies of Israel. They're not going to, very unlikely, mentioned in Scripture by the way, very unlikely to be in any sort of normalization agreement with Israel, sworn enemies. Because they would perhaps respond to these Abraham Accords in opposition and attack Israel in this Gog and Magog invasion.

And then this is where God intervenes supernaturally, destroying these invading armies. And this is at the point you say next so that Israel recognizes their God. This is not a hard and fast prediction you're making, but you're looking out and seeing some current events taking shape to something that's plausible coming before us. So maybe you could just add some more detail to that chain I just described, from the Abraham Accords to the Antichrist to Gog and Magog, Turkey and Iran invasion, and then really the rapture return of Christ, all part of the tribulation period.

GUEST: SOEREN KERN:
I really try to avoid speculation because with Bible prophecy it's very hard to pinpoint dates, times. It does seem that we are in a very unique period in human history where a lot of the geopolitical alignments and realignments in the Middle East are setting the stage for this Gog and Magog war. This is a war that Ezekiel prophesied about 2,500 years ago. It's a war in which Turkey and Iran play very, very important roles. Modern day Turkey and Iran, they are enemies of Israel. And when Israel is in a period of peace and security, these countries will take advantage of that and will invade Israel. Now, as you mentioned, God supernaturally intervenes. He destroys these invading armies in the north of Israel, in the mountains of Israel. But I do think that if we are the generation in which the rapture occurs, every generation of Christians has hoped that they are the generation.

I certainly do. But if we are, then I personally think that the Abraham Accords is the treaty. I'm not saying that Donald Trump is the Antichrist. I'm saying that this treaty, this normalization treaty between Israel and all the other Arab countries, is a major deal and it would basically result in a large segment of the Middle East recognizing that Israel is going to be in the land forever, that the Jews have a legitimate right to be in the land. And as I mentioned in the previous segment, the Islamists are going to vociferously oppose any kind of agreement that legitimizes Israel, particularly Israeli control over Jerusalem. So I think that it's very possible that this is the treaty, the Abraham Accords, and at some point, as you mentioned, maybe the United States is no longer able to play the guarantor role for Israel's security, and that's when Gog and Magog do the invasion to try to seize Jerusalem, to try to take control over Jerusalem.

I think it's very important to think about the rhetoric that's been coming out of Turkey over the last 12 months. They're saying that Jerusalem is a Turkish city because it was under the control of the Ottoman Empire. They're taking advantage of the chaos in Syria and they're basically exerting tremendous amount of influence over the Syrian government and over Syrian territory because Syria used to be part of the Ottoman Empire. And the significance of this really is that Turkey and Israel for the first time could be at odds with each other along the Syrian border. This would never have happened really during the Assad regime in Syria. So we're seeing all of these sort of pieces of Ezekiel 38 and 39 falling into place. And I personally would not be surprised if the Abraham Accords are the treaty that Daniel refers to in Daniel Nine.

Daniel uses the word confirms the treaty, the Antichrist confirms. So Bible scholars are divided whether or not he negotiates treaty or if he just reaffirms a treaty that's already in existence. It's very hard to tell from the language in Daniel exactly what is the meaning of the word confirmed. In the end, God does intervene supernaturally. And the purpose really of Gog and Magog war is ultimately to bring the Jews in Israel to recognize that God, Yahweh is their God. And what's going to happen is going to be so supernaturally unbelievable. The total defeat of all of these invading armies with God sending fire down from heaven to destroy them is going to really to my mind, result in a revival in the land of Israel.

The Book of Ezekiel says that that's what's going to happen, that the name of the Lord is going to be a proclaimed in the land of Israel once again. I think it's significant for Christians to understand what's going on with the ceasefire deal, with the hostage deal, with the negotiations towards the Abraham Accords, the normalization with Saudi Arabia, because I think this really is setting the stage for end times prophecy if I'm analyzing this correctly and if we are in the generation obviously that all this is going to happen.

So it's very exciting. I think that from a pastoral perspective it's important that we're aware of the times in which we're living, that we really focus on holiness and on being right with the Lord, on repenting of our sins because we really don't know what's coming, what's ahead, and we don't know how much longer we're going to be on this earth or we are going to be caught up to be with the Lord very soon. Apart from the interest geopolitically or the interest in politics, this has a real significant impact on our spiritual lives, our walk with the Lord. And so I would encourage our listeners, your listeners, to keep that in mind when they're trying to discern what's going on in the Middle East.

HOST: DAVID WHEATON:
Well, just listening to you talk about it, it does bring chills to think about that we could be in the generation of the rapture of the church and the return of Christ and the tribulation taking place after the rapture and so forth. So, wow, it's a lot to think about here. And the chain you mentioned of these Abraham Accords being the start of all this or the fulfillment of what God's already decreed is going to take place, is pretty amazing to behold. And I think perhaps for people listening today who appreciate the U-turn this country has made politically and think about Donald Trump in such positive terms, it can give us cognitive dissonance to think about the fact that Trump being the dealmaker, wanting to be the first one ever to bring peace to the Middle East, of all the past presidents who failed at that, he wants to be the one that makes it happen, and what he's willing to do to make that happen and the leverage he has in this country financially, militarily, in every other way to be able to force this to happen.

You think that we need to really be paying attention to not just the executive actions that Trump is writing here regarding that there's only two sexes and DEI out of the military and all those things are very good, but what he might be doing elsewhere, unwittingly even, because he doesn't have the discernment or perhaps the biblical understanding of what scripture says about what Isreal should do and shouldn't do over there, and many in Israel don't even have this either, by the way. It's not just Trump, it's many in Israel, would maybe be in favor of this as well. So we appreciate this, Soeren and in the February issue of The Christian Worldview Journal, you're actually going to be writing an extensive column on Gog and Magog, the invasion and things related to that. Just give us a 60 second preview of the high points that readers can expect in the February issue of The Journal.

GUEST: SOEREN KERN:
It's been very rewarding for me to write this and to dig a little bit deeper into the Bible commentaries on what scholars have written about the Gog and Magog war. It's a hotly debated war because some of the details are just not clear. And it's particularly the names that of the coalition members that Ezekiel mentions, those are ancient names. In many case, those entities no longer exist. So my article is trying to kind of identify who are some of the main players in this invasion. And as I mentioned in a previous segment, it's very clearly Turkey and Iran play very important rules. They are two countries that will be very opposed to the Abraham Accords.

And then I also look a little bit at the timing. What do Bible scholars say about when this war happens? Does it happen before the rapture or after the rapture or in the very beginning of the tribulation period? The Bible doesn't really say, but Bible scholars make some very good guesses at when it would be. And so that's really the aim of this article is just to try to lay out through the latest scholarship some of these countries and who they are and who they could be and what scholars in the past have said they could be. It's very interesting and I think that for anyone reading that, that it would be very beneficial.

HOST: DAVID WHEATON:
Well, this is exactly why we are thankful for you, Soeren, and just to know you and to know your walk with the Lord, and to actually have you be working with The Christian Worldview and being the Managing Editor of the Journal to put this kind of important content out so we can be discerning and anticipating the Lord's return. This is really incredible to even be talking about. Thank you for coming on the Christian Worldview, Soeren, today. We'll look forward to the next time.

GUEST: SOEREN KERN:
My pleasure.

HOST: DAVID WHEATON:
The February issue of the Journal is going to the printer soon and I had the opportunity to read Soeren's article on Gog and Magog. It's very informative and his articles are exclusive to the Journal, so just call us or go to our website, thechristianworldview.org, if you want to sign up for the Journal.
Thank you for joining us today on The Christian Worldview and for your support of this nonprofit radio ministry. Let's remember that God's plan is right on track and that Christ must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet. Until next time, think biblically, live accordingly and stand firm.

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