Remembering and Respecting the Life and Ministry of John MacArthur (1939 – 2025)

GUEST: Travis Allen, pastor and former managing director, Grace to You

On Monday, July 14, 2025 at 6:17 PM in Southern California, the soul and spirit of one of the great preachers left his deceased earthly body, ascending into heaven to meet the God he so faithfully served and proclaimed. His name was John MacArthur.

Only a small fraction of the world would recognize the immense spiritual impact that MacArthur had on millions around the globe—growing believers deeper in their faith and urging non-believers to repent and believe in Christ—through his preaching, books, seminary, university, radio program, and much more.

Psalm 116:15 says, “Precious in the sight of the Lord is the death of His godly ones.”

MacArthur was a godly one and oh-to-see him meet the Christ he boldly preached. “Well done, good and faithful slave” would have been his Master’s words.

Today on the program, Travis Allen, pastor of Grace Church in Greeley, CO and one who graduated from the seminary MacArthur led, taught at the church where MacArthur pastored, and led the radio ministry Grace to You that features MacArthur’s preaching, joins us to remember and respect the life and ministry of the elder statesman of the faith.

The aim is not to deify John MacArthur. He wouldn’t want that and would be the first to say he’s a sinner saved by God’s grace. Rather, we will examine and learn from the life of a man who trusted in Christ as Savior, obeyed Him as Lord, held His Word as the highest authority, diligently mined and preached its truths, and loved and shepherded the flock God entrusted to him for 56 years.

Transcript

Remembering and Respecting the Life and Ministry of John MacArthur - Part 1 SATURDAY, July 12, 2025 at 8:00am CT

HOST: DAVID WHEATON:
Remembering and respecting the life and ministry of John MacArthur. That is a topic we'll discuss today on The Christian Worldview Radio program where the mission is to sharpen the biblical worldview of Christians and to proclaim the good news of Jesus Christ. I'm David Wheaton, the host. The Christian Worldview is a nonprofit, listener-supported radio ministry. Our website is TheChristianWorldview.org and the rest of our contact information will be given throughout today's program. As always, thank you for your notes of encouragement, financial support, and lifting us up in prayer.

On Monday, July 14th, 2025 at 6:17 PM in southern California, the soul and spirit of one of the great preachers left his deceased earthly body, ascending into heaven to meet the God he so faithfully served and proclaimed. His name was John MacArthur. Only a small fraction of the world would recognize the immense spiritual impact that MacArthur had on millions around the globe, growing believers deeper in their faith and urging non-believers to repent and believe in Christ through his preaching, books, seminary, university, radio program, and much more.

Psalm 116, verse 15 says, "Precious in the sight of the Lord is the death of His godly ones." MacArthur was a godly one. And oh, to see him meet the Christ he so boldly preached. "Well, done good and faithful slave," would've been his master's words. Today in the program, Travis Allen, pastor of Grace Church in Greeley, Colorado and one who graduated from the seminary MacArthur led, taught at the church where MacArthur pastored and led the radio ministry Grace to You that features MacArthur's preaching, joins us to remember and respect the life and ministry of this elder statesman of the faith. The aim is not to deify John MacArthur. He wouldn't want that and would be the first to say he's a sinner saved by God's grace. Rather, we will examine, learn from and honor a man who trusted in Christ as Savior, obeyed Him as lord held His word as the highest authority diligently mined out and preached its truths and loved and shepherded the flock God entrusted to him for 56 years. Because the greatest thing about John MacArthur is the God who did great work in him.

Now, if you're tuning in today and have only vaguely heard of John MacArthur, I'm just going to read a few paragraphs that summarize his life by a man named Christopher Kelvin Reid who wrote a post online. He writes, "John MacArthur born June 19th, 1939 stands as a towering figure in modern Christianity, often hailed as the most influential pastor-theologian of the late 20th and early 21st centuries. His 56-year ministry at Grace Community Church in Sun Valley, California exemplifies an unwavering commitment to biblical truth, a relentless stand against false doctrine in a life radiating the gospel's transformative power. As Joshua Barzon noted on Twitter, X, MacArthur's legacy is clear, shaped by his resolute fidelity to scripture in his role as a beacon for conservative evangelicals worldwide. MacArthur's journey began in a family steeped in gospel ministry with his father Jack MacArthur, a Baptist evangelist whose love for his wife modeled Christ-like devotion.
"This legacy of faith shaped John MacArthur who recalled, 'I learned how you're supposed to love your wife,' from his father's example. His call to ministry crystallized in the 1960s, leading him to pastor Grace Community Church since 1969. Through expository preaching, he unpacked scripture verse by verse, believing, 'The only way you can be saved is to confess Jesus as Lord and believe God raised Him from the dead.' His conviction fueled the ministry that reached millions via Grace to You, his global radio and television outreach. MacArthur's fight against false doctrine defined his legacy. As J.C Ryle's X account highlights, he swam against the current of evangelical trends, opposing compromises like no Lordship theology and progressive ideologies infiltrating the church. He confronted errors from prosperity gospel to social justice distortions, insisting, 'Doctrine is useless if it is not accompanied by a holy life.' His courage inspired countless pastors and laypeople. As Puritan Truths reflected, few men have stirred as much admiration for defending truth as John MacArthur. MacArthur's gospel commitment extended to his family. He cherished his wife Patricia and their four children, modeling the love he preached."

Final paragraph. "As a prolific author of over 150 books, including the millions selling MacArthur Study Bible, he equipped generations to know scripture deeply. MacArthur's legacy endures as a clarion call to stand firm, love faithfully and proclaim the gospel boldly, making him a true giant of the faith."

Here's just a snippet of what John MacArthur's preaching sounded like.
Audio Sound Bite: John MacArthur:
The most important thing in life is not what you possess. The most important thing in life is what you believe. What you possess will not bring you to God. What you possess will not take you to heaven. What you possess will not bring you forgiveness of sin and salvation. Only what you believe will. And the Bible says only if you believe in the Lord Jesus Christ will you have eternal life. The goal of life is not personal satisfaction. The goal of life is the glory of God and the honor of God. When you live to honor God, you enjoy life to its max. Death is not for most people a welcome, delightful transition. It is a horrible, horrible sending into eternal judgment and you can't change yourself. The good news is God can change you, will change you, will make you a new creation through faith in Jesus Christ.

HOST: DAVID WHEATON:
That is vintage MacArthur. Biblical above all else, clear, definitive, truthful, including the hard truths of scripture, and also hopeful with the gospel. What you possess will not take you to heaven, only what you believe about Christ will. And life is to be lived for the glory of God and therein is the most joy. MacArthur liked to say, "Hard preaching makes soft hearts, while soft preaching makes hard hearts." Hard preaching meaning the preaching of all of scripture, not just the portions that the preacher thinks will make people feel good and affirmed. But when you preach the full counsel of God, God uses that to soften our heart, for unbelievers to repent and believe in the gospel and for believers to recognize areas that need sanctification in their lives. There have been endless tributes and eulogies since John MacArthur went to heaven earlier this week. You can find many of them online. We are going to play or read some today. Now, one interesting one is from Ben Shapiro, a very popular political conservative who is Jewish and not a believer in Christ. But Shapiro interviewed MacArthur twice on his podcast and here is what Ben Shapiro said this week about John MacArthur.

Audio Sound Bite: Ben Shapiro:
I want to start today by offering condolences to the family and all of the followers of John MacArthur, the Southern California preacher, and someone who I'd venture to say was a friend of mine. John MacArthur was on the show twice at length. An amazing human being. Of course, he had millions and millions of followers in the Christian community. Christianity Today has a lengthy obituary for John MacArthur who passed away yesterday afternoon. They say, "Expository preacher John MacArthur who taught scripture to millions through taped sermons, radio broadcasts, bible commentaries, and a bestselling study bible died Monday at the age of 86. MacArthur said the most important mark of his ministry was that he explained the Bible with the Bible, not cluttering up sermons with personal stories, commentary on current events or appeals to emotion, but teaching timeless truth. The longtime pastor of Grace Community Church said a good sermon should still be good 50 years after it is preached."

He said, "It isn't timestamped by any kind of cultural events or personal events. It's not about me, and it transcends not only time, but it transcends culture." He published the MacArthur study Bible in 1997. It has 20,000 notes on specific verses. MacArthur, of all the people that I know in this sphere, and I know quite a few, was absolutely staunch in his defense of the Bible. He is somebody who certainly never shied away from the messages of the New Testament and somebody who made himself controversial because of that, which I think is quite a good thing. In the first interview that I did with him, a lengthy interview, he spent fully 30 minutes of the interview talking to me about why I ought to convert to Christianity. And as a Jew, I will say that not only do I not find that insulting, I find that absolutely useful.

Why? Because he is saying the thing that he believed and I think that that is a good thing. And the reason I considered him a friend is because he's somebody who cared about my eternal soul. We could have disagreements on what would happen with regard to heaven or hell or whether the New Testament was truth or not truth, depending on whether you're a Christian or a Jew, but I was never upset by the fact that he believed that I ought to convert to Christianity because of course, many Christians believe that I to convert to Christianity. It's not an insult. That's because somebody cares for my spiritual welfare and we disagree about how best to attain that spiritual welfare.

HOST: DAVID WHEATON:
Wasn't that an interesting soundbite coming from Ben Shapiro, a Jewish nonbeliever in Christ? Holds MacArthur with the highest respect. Said that, "MacArthur is absolutely staunch in his defense of the Bible. He spent fully 30 minutes talking to me about why I should convert to Christianity. He's saying things he believes. He cared about my eternal soul." Would that all unbelievers in our lives say the same thing about us as Ben Shapiro said about John MacArthur?

Isn't that really the point of the Christian life? To repent and believe in the gospel so that we personally can be saved, but then to take that message that saved us and love others enough, caring enough about their eternal souls to tell it to them as well. That's what John MacArthur did with Ben Shapiro.

All right. We'll hear more of the soundbites about John MacArthur, but let's first get to the interview with Travis Allen, pastor of Grace Church in Greeley, Colorado. One who spent years in close proximity to John MacArthur in seminary at Grace Community Church in Los Angeles, and at Grace to You, the radio program that features the preaching of John MacArthur.

Travis, thank you for coming on The Christian Worldview Radio Program for this very special topic today as we remember and respect the life and ministry of John MacArthur. And just to start off our conversation, I will be curious as to what your thoughts were when you heard that John MacArthur had left this world and entered heaven on Monday, July 14th.

GUEST: TRAVIS ALLEN:
David, first of all, it's such a privilege to be on your program again. I so much appreciate you at what you do, your friendship, your integrity and ministry, and just look forward to seeing how the Lord continues to use you. It's kind of interesting by God's providence, I had a lot of interaction not just that day on Monday, but the previous week really with folks who were from or closely connected to Grace Community Church and Grace to You. Several of them had visited us and a couple of friends were even in our worship service on Sunday and we spent some time with them. So we've been staying abreast of information regarding John's health and how he's doing. We've been praying, especially as his health started to decline. Our church members have been faithfully praying for John MacArthur and Grace Church for a long time. Though we're called Grace Church, we're here in Greeley, Colorado, but our church knows without a shadow of a doubt how much I love and appreciate everything that I've received from John and the institutions underneath his influence and what he built up and raised up there in California. So we're really, really grateful.

When we'd said goodbye to those friends leaving and returning to California on Monday afternoon, it was later that evening that I received that anticipated text that John MacArthur had entered into heaven and I immediately, I think, felt relieved for him and his family just knowing that they'd just kind of been on the watch for quite some time and had had a number of encouraging times of hoping that he would recover, return to ministry, be back in full strength and voice to minister the word from the pulpit, but that just wasn't what God had in store. So I just felt relieved for him, felt great joy over the significance of a man like that entering into his heavenly reward and just imagining that entrance. People who'd benefited from his ministry, who received him into heaven along with our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. Our Lord, who he preached all his ministry 56 years in the pulpit receiving him.

I just thought about that reception and how warm that would be and look forward to that for myself. My heart's been kind of full of gratitude ever since. I've been reflecting on all that God has done for me and my family, my church. So many other pastors and churches as well could say the same. In fact, I'd say even unbelieving people throughout the country, throughout the world have benefited whether they know it or not. They've benefited from John MacArthur's stances on many things. Just such a faithful life in ministry. My birthday was the day after and every time a birthday rolls around and you tick another year off the clock, you kind of think about your future, how little time you have left. We've had several close deaths in the past few years in our family and we've had a couple deaths of families in some of our church members. So I think I've also been a little bit pensive and sometimes even misty-eyed as I reflect on John MacArthur's example, consider ways that I want to excel still more in my life in ministry. I'd just maybe sum it up by saying I do feel sorrow for the loss. I feel like we have lost a great example hero of the faith. But at the same time I'm profoundly grateful for him and feel great joy and satisfaction at seeing a life well lived for the glory of God.
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Our topic today is remembering and respecting the life and ministry of John MacArthur as he went home to be with the Lord earlier this week. Before we get back to our guest, Pastor Travis Allen, let's hear another soundbite or two. I love this first one where John MacArthur explains the gospel in about one minute using Second Corinthians 5:21.

Audio Sound Bite: John MacArthur:
Second Corinthians 5:21. "He made Him who knew no sin, sin for us that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him." Let me unpack those 15 Greek words. He, God, made Jesus sin. What do you mean He made Jesus sin? Only in one sense. He treated Him as if He had committed every sin ever committed by every person who would ever believe though in fact He committed none of them. Hanging on the cross, He was wholly harmless, undefiled. Hanging on the cross, He was a spotless lamb. He was never for a split second a sinner. He is holy God on the cross. But God is treating Him, I'll put it more practically, as if He lived my life. God punished Jesus for my sin, turns right around and treats me as if I lived His life. That's the great doctrine of substitution and on that doctrine turned the whole reformation of the church. That is the heart of the gospel. And what you get is complete forgiveness covered by the righteousness of Jesus Christ. When He looks at the cross, He sees you. When He looks at you, He sees Christ.

HOST: DAVID WHEATON:
Again, vintage MacArthur. Precision word by word exposition of scripture. Always pointing people to Christ through whom they can be saved. All right. Let's get back to the interview with Pastor Travis Allen.
Before you came to Grace Church in Greeley, Colorado, Travis, you had a very extensive background, as you were alluding to in your first answer there, with John MacArthur. Tell us about your background with him from when you first heard about him to starting to listen to his preaching, then to attending The Master's Seminary and then becoming the managing director for Grace to You, his radio broadcast.

GUEST: TRAVIS ALLEN:
There are many who know and have known John MacArthur through the years. They were much closer to him, much better friends to him and with him than I ever had the privilege of being, but I did have some friendship with him and acquaintance with him that I'll always treasure. My acquaintance with John MacArthur in his ministry Started back in 1991. I had returned from Gulf War one. Long deployment. I was still serving in the Navy and the SEAL teams. I was driving back and forth to the Little Creek Naval base and I would listen to Christian radio early in the morning and hear different preachers, but one really stood out and above all the rest. And that's when I discovered ... I didn't even know his name at first because it always seemed to catch the broadcast in mid flow, but I discovered John MacArthur and heard preaching and teaching of God's word that was deep, it was energetic, it was verse by verse. It really had a high regard, high esteem for God's word and an energetic curiosity about it that was frankly contagious.

I was so grateful to hear somebody preaching God's word and teaching the word to answer questions that really would naturally come up for any reader of the text. So I was just grateful. I remember pulling up to a stoplight one time while the preaching was going on and listening to it and just thanking God for what I was hearing, but then praying, asking God, "Would you let me do that?" And what I meant by that in that simple prayer was would you let me understand and know your word like that so that I can share it with other people, so that I can give them the joy and the benefit that I'm deriving right now from this teaching that is life changing, life transforming.

It's renewing my mind and changing the way I think and changing the way I behave and speak. I want to be able to do that for other people. I had no concept at that time of calling on my life that God was moving me toward pastoral ministry. Little did I know that as I look back, I do see that that's one of the evidences of the calling on my life at an early age as a Christian. That took me through the years through John MacArthur to discover other faithful men, other faithful sound doctrine, and I was reading and learning and growing. It took me through Bible college and then eventually after I did some time in the United States Border Patrol, from the southern border went up to Los Angeles. I quit the federal law enforcement, went into Master's Seminary, and started working for Grace to You right away.

So I was pursuing my education for a masters in divinity. I didn't know exactly where the Lord was leading, but I was ministering pretty intensely at Grace Community Church in various pastoral roles, teaching, caring, discipling, leading, growing leadership, all those things. But I was also working full-time at Grace to You and to support and provide for my family. I started out making cassette tapes and CDs and that gave me opportunity to listen to hours and hours and hours of his teaching. Then after about a year and a half, two years, I became what's called the broadcast editor, and basically all of his Sunday messages, Sunday morning, Sunday night would go through my computer where I would do audio and content editing to basically check all of John MacArthur's facts, his Greek, his Hebrew, his theology. I'd check him against himself. I'd just make sure everything was consistent.

The remarkable thing about John MacArthur is how few mistakes I would find in any of his teaching. It was just remarkable. He's a deep student of God's word and that came out in his preaching. I'd take those messages then and edit them for radio. So I'd turn a 60-minute message into two 20 to 25 minute segments that would go then and be broadcast on the radio. So I, at that time, had the access to about 35 or 40 years of John MacArthur's teaching in the vault, and I would listen to those messages. I could hear his development as a preacher. I hear his pastoral heart over all those years. It was a whole other set of education for me other than what I was getting at The Master's Seminary in the pulpit Sunday by Sunday. It was just deeply meaningful to me. I did that for a couple of years, went on to start and build the internet or web department at Grace to You, became one of the managers there over that department and then eventually became managing director and did that for a couple of years before I left to come here to Colorado to pastor.

So a lot of time then during all those different roles to interact with John MacArthur, watch how he recorded, watch how he dealt with staff, watch him interact with ... Some of the most precious people on earth, are the volunteers who would come to Grace to You and physically put books in boxes, affix mailing labels to the packaging, fold letters and put them in envelopes and send them off and just a whole roomful of those people every Tuesday and Thursday and John MacArthur as he'd come in, he'd see people there that he'd ministered to for years who just loved him, his ministry, and you could see his pastoral love and heart for them. He'd always make time for people, even in a very, very busy life. So I just watched his life, his dealing with people. A man who's deeply convinced and convicted in the truth, firm believer in God's word, a great curiosity in God's word. But he really was like our Lord in that he was never in such a hurry that he couldn't stop and talk to anyone. Didn't matter who they were, if they came up and talked to them. He just engaged them in such a kind way. So I just appreciate watching that.

HOST: DAVID WHEATON:
That's a very interesting perspective, Travis. Travis Allen with us today on The Christian Worldview. Just how John MacArthur was impacting you even beyond being in the seminary, being at the church, just watching his life and listening to his sermons and how God was using that in your own life to prepare you for what you're doing today as pastor of Grace Church in Greeley, Colorado. Now Travis, lots of pastors have the same doctrinal positions as John MacArthur. He hasn't discovered any new interpretation of scripture that's totally unique or something, or even his preaching style is not overly, let's use the word "charismatic". I mean just compelling, stalking the stage or anything like that. He seems fairly normal in these things from a standpoint of his doctrinal positions and his preaching style, and yet as you read what notable pastors, Christian leaders say about him, he's just incredibly highly respected and considered to be such a leader amongst those in let's say the conservative theological end of Christianity. Why is he so respected and such a leader over all these years when his doctrinal positions ... Some people would disagree with him on certain things. We'll get to some of those things, but why was he so respected and such a leader?

GUEST: TRAVIS ALLEN:
There's definitely some divine providence that has made him the man that he is. He's I believe, a fifth generation pastor, preacher. So it really is down the family generations has come down to a high watermark in John MacArthur and what he received growing up in his dad's church, and he was in his teens when his dad was pastor at Calvary Bible Church in Burbank, California. They would head over to the studio after Sunday night at one of the Burbank studios to record Calvary Bible Hour where Jack MacArthur would preach. He'd teach on the air. John watched all that. He watched how media works, how radio works. I believe some of his earlier preaching went onto that program. So John just had opportunity and example, the witness and testimony of a faithful father who deeply trusted the Bible. So I think those are providential things.

I think he had a number of very significant gifts of the Holy Spirit, I believe, on his life as well. iI's just, again, what points to God's design in raising him up for the times that we were living through, going back to those decades and seeing God raise up not only Grace Community Church to be such a leadership and training and sending kind of a church. Not every church is like that. Not every church should be. But definitely God chose that church, those people in that time and that place to bless and benefit so many churches around the country and around the world. It took a leader at the helm who had the gifting of leadership and influence and communication, wisdom and a deep commitment to God's word and the fear of the Lord at the helm. So that's why God I think raised John up.
So you have the Master's Seminary and the Master's College. Now it's the Master's University. Grace to You. It is Grace Missions International. I believe that's what it's called. GMI. And the Master's Academy International as well, sending the truth around the world through trained men. He's always had an affection for pastors. It's what resulted in him very early on starting the Shepherds Conference and bringing pastors out to California just to love on them, to minister to them through the word and to encourage and strengthen them in the truth, give them resources. Just a fantastic ministry. I think that's what makes him so different. I don't think he was always self-reflective. He kind of saw himself as just one of the guys. I think on another side of it though, he did recognize that God had given him certain providential advantages and privileges and certain gifting that allowed him to be a conduit of a lot of God's goodness, especially to pastors to influence churches.

I think he used that stewardship well. At the heart of it, I believe he's just a man who really loved God's word dearly. My wife and I, when we heard the news, we just kind of stole away some time by ourselves to read together out loud just Psalm 119 and just saw that's the heart of John MacArthur is the psalmist in Psalm 119. "Oh, how I love your law." And he wanted everyone else to love God's law too. I think he was a man who was deeply curious and interested in the Bible. Every single text, he believed what the Bible said, and that is what fueled his life and ministry. It's what explains the enthusiastic, eager curiosity that he had about the Bible that was really contagious as it came out in his teaching. There's a text in Second Corinthians chapter four, and I won't read the entire thing, but just a couple of chunks that I really think explains how John thought. The Apostle Paul was a hero to him, and this text in particular I think really grabbed ahold of his heart. Says, "Therefore, since we have this ministry as we have received mercy, we do not lose heart."

John MacArthur always saw his ministry as a mercy from God that he received from God, so he didn't lose heart. "But we have renounced the hidden things of shame, not walking in craftiness or adulterating the word of God, but by the manifestation of truth, commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God. And even if our gospel is veiled, it's veiled to those who are perishing, in whose case the God of this age has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so they might not see the light of the gospel and the glory of Christ who is the image of God, who we do not preach ourselves, but Jesus Christ is Lord and ourselves as slaves for the sake of Jesus. For God who said light shall shine out of darkness is the one who has shown in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ."

Skipping down to verse 13, it says, "But having the same spirit of faith according to what is written, I believed therefore I spoke. We also believe, therefore we also speak knowing that He who raised the Lord Jesus will raise us also with Jesus and will present us with you. For all things are for your sakes. So that the grace which is spreading to more and more people that caused the giving of thanks to abound to the glory of God." That text and even some verses that I skipped there, that text really is what explains John MacArthur in his heart I think. He did not preach himself. He set aside personal stories and making himself the hero and all that. He preached Christ. He was enamored with Christ. He loved to preach Christ, and he wanted more and more people to love Christ as he loved Him so that more and more praise and thanksgiving would abound to the glory of God. He saw himself as a slave, a servant to that. I think that's how he lived to the very end of his life.

HOST: DAVID WHEATON:
Yes. I think you got him so accurately there. Even in that passage, if I'm not mistaken, I think when people would ask him to sign a book or something, he would actually sign a verse from Second Corinthians chapter four, if I'm not mistaken, Travis, but I remember him doing that.

GUEST: TRAVIS ALLEN:
He did. Yes. It was 2 Corinthians 4:5-7. He wanted to include that we have this treasure in earthen vessels, so the surpassing greatness of the power will be of God, not from ourselves. He especially liked to put that whole section, we don't preach ourselves, but Christ is Lord, ourselves as slaves for your sake. He especially used to like to write that in the Bibles of pastors. They so much need to hear that.

HOST: DAVID WHEATON:
Good reminder. Pastor Travis Allen is our guest today, remembering and respecting the life and ministry of John MacArthur, who recently went home to be with the Lord. And he was born in 1939, he went to heaven in 2025, July 14th, and we're remembering his life and ministry today. let's hear another soundbite from John MacArthur. This one from a Q&A at a Salem Radio station event here in the Twin Cities many years ago where he was asked what you could call the Calvinist gotcha question. How does God's sovereignty in choosing those who will be saved make sense as the Bible also calls all men to repent and believe the gospel?

Audio Sound Bite: John MacArthur:
Do you believe that God is sovereign in salvation? Of course. We went through that today. Do you believe God chooses who will be saved? Of course. Do you believe the Father draws? Yes. Do you believe that the son keeps? Yes. Do you believe the son raises? Yeah. It's all sovereign. It's all predestined. It's all established. Absolutely right. This is what the Bible says. Do you believe that whosoever will may come? Yes. It's what the Bible says. Do you believe that God finds no pleasure in the death and judgment of the wicked? Yes. Do you believe that Jesus wept because sinners wouldn't repent? Of course. Are you willing to call all sinners to repent and do you believe they're responsible if they don't come? Yes. Well, how do you harmonize that? I don't know. I don't know how to harmonize that. Well, you're asking too much of me. I'm not God. You want my little peanut pea pusillanimous brain to grasp that? Give me a break. The one thing I can't do is deny what scripture says. Who wrote Romans? Can't answer the question can you? Why? All of Paul, all his vocabulary, all his heart, all his thoughts, all his words, all of God, and yet not mechanical. Who lives your Christian life? Listen to what Paul said. "I am crucified with Christ, nevertheless, I live. Yet not I." He didn't know either.

He said, "This is the divine mystery. It's all of me and all of Him, and what's wrong is me, and what's right is Him." In every major doctrine of the Bible, in every major doctrine, you have an apparent paradox that you cannot resolve. I know that I'm kept eternally secured by God, but I also know I'm commanded to persevere in faith. I know I can't be saved unless I'm chosen and called and I know I can't be saved unless I'm willing to repent and believe. I don't have to harmonize it, but nor can I deny those things. And in the end, mark it folks, in the end, God will get all the glory for every righteous thing that is done because it is all His work. And you rest in the fact that you don't need to grasp the mysteries that are clear in the mind of eternal God.

HOST: DAVID WHEATON:
So did you notice how John MacArthur affirmed two truths the Bible clearly teaches? That God is sovereign in who is saved, and also that man is called to repent and believe. The Bible says this in a number of places, but one example is John chapter one, verses 12 and 13. Listen to this. "As many as received Him, Christ, to them, He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name." There's man's side of it, man's responsibility. Verse 13, "Who were born not of blood." They weren't born this way. "Nor of the will of the flesh." They didn't work to be saved. "Nor of the will of man, but of God." There's God's sovereignty side of salvation. Christians should believe both. They're two parallel rails of the same train track that end up in the same destination. It's profound. Yes, it's beyond our human minds to fully comprehend so we're called to trust God and believe both, and that's what John MacArthur taught throughout his entire preaching ministry. He wasn't some hyper-Calvinist as you can see from that answer.

All right. Back to the interview with Pastor Travis Allen, former managing director of Grace to You, the radio ministry of John MacArthur. Now, you've already mentioned some of these things, Travis. When I personally think of John MacArthur, and this goes back for those listeners who have heard perhaps the interviews with my parents over Mother's Day or Father's Day, and my mom or dad would talk about the fact that they first started listening to John MacArthur when he first came on radio back in I think the late 1970s and how our family was so impacted by his preaching. But when I think of him over all these years, I just think of a high view of scripture. You just mentioned that one. His love for Jesus Christ.

He just had a love for Christ. That's really what the Christian life is about. Loving the Lord Jesus Christ. You've touched on that. His commitment to the local church. He was in the same church for 56 years. That's how old I am. I could always remember how long he'd been at Grace Community Church because that's my age. And he had been there all those years and his goal there was to preach verse by verse, yes, but also to train men to go out and minister around the world with The Master's Seminary and all the different things he did to train men. The Shepherds Conference that you and I have attended so many times and what a great event that is every year. Another thing when I think of him, his uncompromising convictions and his willingness just to stand alone. He just had that ability to not be drawn into the trends and he has lots of relationships with other very well-known pastors and Christian leaders.

But push come to shove and there was a departure of what he believed was the word of God said on a given issue, it was very gracious but, "No, I'm going to stand over here on what the word of God says." Another thing I think about is his personal graciousness. Outside the pulpit, people think he preaches very strong and he does, but you'll hear over and over again people talk about that John MacArthur, "I met him. Wow. He was just such a gracious and humble person." And that's absolutely true in the times I had the privilege of being able to interact with him a little bit. And then a scandal-free personal life. He led a long ministry and that there was no allegations of sexual immorality, disqualification, financial improprieties, those kinds of things. Of course, he ran very large ministries and there's always going to be people under you and it's mix of the wheat and the tares, so there's always going to be things, but just him personally I'm speaking about. There weren't these kinds of things coming out about him. So those are just a few of the bullet points I wrote down, Travis. Perhaps you could just pick one of those and speak to it why John MacArthur after 56 years in ministry at the same church, why he was so unusual?

GUEST: TRAVIS ALLEN:
I don't know that I'd do a good job just picking one of them. In Ecclesiastes 7:28, Solomon says, "My soul continually searches for this but doesn't find it. Among a thousand people, I have found not just one true man." I think Solomon would find John MacArthur that one true man among a thousand. He really is very, very unique and I think that there were providential factors to that, but the Lord got ahold of him. John does talk about his young days, his youthful days where he was pursuing a football career. He had a short stint at Bob Jones University where he maybe didn't fit into the mold, ended up going in different direction in his college time. But he was thrown out of a car. He got into a car accident and he was ejected and skidded down the highway on his backside and spent, I think several months in the hospital recovering from that.

And he really did some soul searching and reflection, and I think that's where God grabbed ahold of him and turned him away from, as he used to tell me, throwing a pigskin around. What does that matter for eternity? But he turned away from what could have been a football career or something like that and used his leadership and his enthusiasm and charisma and his excitement for life. God redirected that. He put on John MacArthur the yoke and the burden of pastoral ministry. So it devoted him to a love of the truth. It devoted him to hours and hours and hours in preparation in the study and then emerging from the study to go practice that not only in his pulpit ministry, but in his pastoral ministry as well. He was often at the bedside of people in the hospital. He'd go and visit people. He'd disciple and counsel people, especially in those earlier days when his ministry wasn't so large that it put other demands on him that were kind of broader than his local church.

He was very much the local church pastor. There are guys who are great students of the word of God, but sometimes they come out of the study and they still have a hard time seeing the forest through the trees. I think John MacArthur was a man who was uniquely gifted to see both the trees individually and the bark and the moss growing and the roots and the fruit, and then describe that in detail, but also he could see the entire forest. He could see what was threatening the forest. He could see beyond that to other landscapes and have an appreciation for many other things, and I think that that's what made him be able to see trends or concerning fads that would come into evangelicalism into the church, that he could see them a lot sooner than many other people can. He could spot those things and as a man with a pastor's heart, he not only had a pastor's heart for his own local church, his family, the people he had a close affection with, but he had affection that went beyond his church walls to see other churches and other pastors and want to see them informed and protected and ready and prepared.

And so I like what you said about his personal graciousness. He was just a very kind-souled man and that came out in his affection for people, but I think he learned from the Lord and I think the Lord by His spirit developed that fruit of the spirit in John to make him really effective in his relationships with other people.
HOST: DAVID WHEATON:
Albert Mohler, Travis, the president of Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, a very well-known, well-respected Christian leader, said this in an article that he wrote after John MacArthur's death. He said, "John MacArthur made a massive impact on my life and I saw him in so many different settings, from his home to so many public events. He was the same constantly. He was generous and gracious and kind, even as he had the courage of a lion." Again, that's Albert Mohler saying that about John MacArthur. And you hear a version of that said many times about the courage and the pulpit, the strong convictions, the stands, and yet a very gracious person when you meet him personally.

All right. We're going to pause there with the interview with Pastor Travis Allen. The good news is we have plenty of conversation remaining with him for part two next week as we hear from someone who knew John MacArthur personally, was an elder at Grace Community Church where MacArthur pastored and worked at many levels, including managing director of Grace to You, the worldwide radio program that broadcasts John MacArthur's sermons. And you can find out more about Travis in the meantime by going to our website TheChristianWorldview.org, where we have links to him and his church, Grace Church in Greeley, Colorado.

I'd like to follow up on what Albert Mohler was saying there about John MacArthur, that he was bold and courageous in the pulpit, and so therefore he must be hard-nosed in person, right? But that's an erroneous conclusion. I mean, consider Christ. Very strong in proclaiming the truth and yet tender, humble and loving with people. This is not a paradox. This is how Christians should be. Full of grace and truth. I came across a post this week that illustrates how John MacArthur was in private outside the walls of ministry in the last few years of his life as his health declined from heart valve and lung procedures to weekly kidney dialysis. Like everyone, he needed frequent physical therapy. Well, his physical therapist who had never heard of John MacArthur when he entered the clinic, posted a picture of himself with MacArthur after his death and wrote something very interesting that gives great insight into John MacArthur.

He said this. "I may have been the only person to have become friends with John MacArthur and not know who he was. I think that's what was special about our friendship. He was humble. He was very kind. He became my teacher, even though I didn't ask him to. He did it with such grace. I never posted a thing about John because his security and privacy here was my priority once I found out who he was. He treated me like family. My heart aches out of selfishness. I miss my friend. I miss talking to him several days a week. I miss asking him any question in the world and him having the perfect answer. I miss my mentor. We fought for three years to keep you strong, and man how I miss you saying, 'I need my trainer.' Every time you had a setback, you gave it your all to get strong again and again and again. Thanks for showing the perfect example of what a man is. However, I know you are in heaven now. You lived privately how you lived publicly. I love you and I hope to make you proud and see you there one day. Thank you, God, for this man in the name of Jesus Christ. Amen."

John MacArthur did not walk into the physical therapy office with a suit and tie and a Bible in his hand with the attitude of being a world-renowned preacher. He was there in a gray T-shirt as the picture in the post showed. He didn't carry an attitude of, "Don't you know who I am?" There's a great lesson here for Christians. No matter who you are or what you have accomplished, see yourself as God sees you. A sinner saved by and empowered by God's grace, a slave of Christ who treats the unknown physical therapist or waiter or person on the street as a valuable soul in the eyes of God and one who needs to hear the saving gospel of Christ. It sounds to me like this physical therapist wasn't a believer before he met an unknown, elderly declining man in a T-shirt in his clinic. God had sovereignly arranged before time began that these two would meet and had built into John MacArthur a love for people and desire to see sinners brought to salvation through the good news of Jesus Christ. This is just one thing we can learn as we remember and respect the life and ministry of John MacArthur. Thank you for joining us today on the Christian Worldview and for your support of this nonprofit radio ministry. Until next week in part two, think biblically, live accordingly and stand firm.

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The Christian Worldview Journal is a monthly, 12-page, full color print publication designed to sharpen your biblical worldview on current events and issues of the faith. Featured in the July issue, Soeren Kern writes about the false peace after the Israel-Iran war, Greg Gifford details how the mind is different than the brain and why this matters in treating mental health. And Virgil Walker explains why Islam is incompatible with Christianity. The Journal is sent to all Christian Worldview Partners who support the ministry at $10 or more per month. Plus, when you become a Christian Worldview Partner, you will be sent a complimentary copy of my book, University of Destruction. Individual issues of The Journal are also available for purchase. To become a Christian Worldview Partner and receive the Journal, go to TheChristianWorldview.org or call 1-888-646-2233 or write to Box 401 Excelsior, Minnesota 55331.

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The mission of The Christian Worldview is to sharpen the biblical worldview of Christians and to proclaim the good news of Jesus Christ. We hope today's broadcast encouraged you toward that end. To hear a replay of today's program, order a transcript or find out what must I do to be saved go to TheChristianWorldview.org or call toll free 1-888-646-2233. The Christian Worldview is a listener-supported nonprofit radio ministry furnished by the Overcomer Foundation. To make a donation, become a Christian Worldview partner, order resources, subscribe to our free newsletter or contact us, visit TheChristianWorldview.org, call 1-888-646-2233 or write to Box 401 Excelsior, Minnesota 55331. That's Box 401, Excelsior, Minnesota 55331. Thanks for listening to The Christian Worldview.