Covid, Charlie Kirk, and the Battle for Truth

GUEST: STEVE DEACE, host of the “Steve Deace Show” and a columnist for Blaze Media

From the very beginning, the souls of men have been the target of a mostly unseen spiritual war. On one side stands the fallen angel Satan and the legions of demons who followed him in rebellion against God. On the other stands the perfectly holy and good God and His holy angels.

The first glimpse of this war appears in the Garden of Eden. There Satan, appearing as a beautiful serpent, tempted Adam and Eve to reject God. He lied, telling them that eating from the forbidden tree would not lead to death but would make them like God, “knowing good and evil.”

The primary descriptor of Satan is that he is a liar. He relentlessly and maliciously twists the truth to lead men and women astray—and ultimately to destroy them. If he can persuade someone to believe a lie—any lie—that results in their deception and death before they repent and come to saving faith in Christ, that is a victory for him.

Whether the unsaved realize it or not, Satan often works through people—including nice-sounding, well-dressed, educated individuals in prominent positions—to twist the truth and lead others astray. For Christians, the ability to discern between what is true and what is false is critical. Jesus warned that as we near the end times, this discernment will only become more difficult:

“For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect” (Matthew 24:24).

A recent period that dramatically illustrated the need for discernment was the COVID pandemic of 2020–2022.

In rapid succession, masking was urged and then mandated for everyone, including children. Later in 2020, a vaccine was released under Emergency Use Authorization as part of “Operation Warp Speed.” Young and old, including pregnant women, were expected—often through intimidation or shame—to receive an injection with no long-term history and very limited testing.

For two years the country took on authoritarian characteristics. Families were barred from visiting loved ones in hospitals and care facilities. Schools, businesses, and churches were ordered closed. Citizens and members of the military lost their jobs for refusing the vaccine. Many reported that loved ones died or were injured after receiving it.

It was a dark time in America—not only because of the deaths of those vulnerable to the virus, but because large portions of the population accepted and promoted falsehoods. The six-foot social-distancing guideline proved to be arbitrary. Masks were not effective at stopping transmission or contraction of the virus. And the vaccine, along with its many boosters, did not prevent people from getting COVID or spreading it to others.

As the virus moved through the population, one reality became clear: the vast majority of people were not dying from it.

A relatively small minority recognized the fallacies advanced by government officials, political leaders, health authorities, the media, major institutions, and even many Christian organizations, prominent leaders, and churches. They pushed back against the deception.

One of those voices was Steve Deace, a radio host for Blaze Media and best-selling co-author of Faucian Bargain: The Most Powerful and Dangerous Bureaucrat in American History. He joins us this weekend on The Christian Worldview to revisit the COVID era and discuss why Christians must become far more discerning. He will also address the Charlie Kirk trial and the conspiracy theories surrounding Kirk’s assassination as yet another example of why believers need to exercise sharper critical thinking.

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Program Notes:

• Steve Deace Show
• Faucian Bargain: The Most Powerful and Dangerous Bureaucrat in American History  by Steve Deace on Amazon

Transcript

Spiritual War And Discernment

Host: David Wheaton 0:07

COVID Charlie Kirk and the need for Christian critical thinking. That is the topic we'll discuss today on the Christian Worldview Radio program, where the mission is to sharpen the biblical worldview of Christians and to proclaim the good news of Jesus Christ. I'm David Wheaton, the host. The Christian Worldview is a nonprofit, listener-supported radio ministry. Our website is TheChristianWorldview.org, and the rest of our contact information will be given throughout today's program. As always, thank you for your notes of encouragement, financial support, and lifting us up in prayer. From the very beginning, the souls of men have been the target of a mostly unseen spiritual war. On one side stands the fallen angel Satan and the legions of demons who followed him in rebellion against God. On the other side stands the perfectly holy and good God and His holy angels. The first glimpse of this war appears in the Garden of Eden. There, Satan appearing as a beautiful serpent, tempted Adam and Eve to reject God. Satan lied, telling Eve that eating from the forbidden tree would not lead to death as God had told him it would, but would make them like God, quote, knowing good and evil, unquote. The primary descriptor of Satan in Scripture is that he is a liar. He relentlessly and maliciously twists the truth to lead men and women astray, and ultimately to destroy them. If he can persuade someone to believe a lie, any lie, that results in their deception and death before they repent and come to saving faith in Christ, that's a victory for him. Whether the unsaved realize it or not, Satan often works through people, including nice sounding, well-dressed, educated individuals in prominent positions to twist the truth and lead others astray. For Christians, the ability to discern between what is true and what is false is critical. Jesus warned that as we near the end times, this discernment will only become more difficult. He said in Matthew chapter 24, for false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect, even true believers. A recent period that dramatically illustrated the need for discernment was the COVID pandemic of the years 2020 to 2022. In late 2019, reports emerged of a dangerous virus in China. By early 2020, cases and deaths began appearing in America, primarily among the elderly and immunocompromised. That spring in 2020, the Centers for Disease Control, the CDC, and Dr. Anthony Fauci, who was the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases and a leading figure on the White House COVID task force, rose to become the highest authorities on this crisis. They introduced so-called social distancing guidelines requiring people to remain six feet apart and launched, quote, fifteen days to slow the spread, urging Americans to stay home. Do you remember that? In rapid succession, masking was urged and then mandated for everyone, including children. Later in 2020, a vaccine was released under emergency use authorization as part of, quote, Operation Warp Speed. Young and old, including pregnant women, were expected, often through intimidation or shame, to receive an injection with no long-term history and very limited testing. For two years, the country took on authoritarian characteristics. Families were barred from visiting loved ones in hospitals and care facilities. Schools, businesses, and churches were ordered closed. Citizens and members of the military lost their jobs for refusing the vaccine. Many reported that loved ones died or were injured after receiving the vaccine. It was a dark time in this country, not only because of the deaths of those vulnerable to the virus, but because large portions of the population accepted and promoted falsehoods. The six-foot social distancing guideline proved to be arbitrary. Masks were not effective at stopping transmission or contraction of the virus. And the vaccine, along with its many boosters, did not prevent people from getting COVID or spreading it to others. As the virus moved through the population, one reality became clear the vast majority of people were not dying from it. Now a relatively small minority recognized the fallacies advanced by government officials, political leaders, health authorities, the media, major institutions, and even many Christian organizations, prominent Christian leaders and churches. One of the voices pushing back against the deception was Steve Dace, a radio host for Blaze Media and best-selling co-author of The Faucian Bargain, the most powerful and dangerous bureaucrat in American history. Steve joins us today on the Christian Worldview to revisit the COVID era and discuss why Christians must become far more discerning. He will also address the Charlie Kirk trial and the conspiracy theories surrounding Kirk's assassination as yet another example of why believers need to exercise sharper critical

Fauci Clips And COVID Claims

Host: David Wheaton 6:03

thinking. Now, before we get to Steve, I just want to play a sequence of audio clips that provide context on what was taking place. The first clip is pre-COVID, all the way back to 2004, when Anthony Fauci was asked about whether someone with the flu should take the vaccine.

Audio Sound Bite: Anthony Fauci 7:12

If she's had the flu for 14 days should she get the flu shot? " Well No, if she's had the flu for 14 days , she's as protected as anyone can be because the best vaccination is to get infected yourself.

Host: David Wheaton 7:12

Well somehow that biological fact was left out when it came to mandating the Covid vaccine. Now fast forward to Covid era and the issue of social distancing. We thought the 6 feet away guidelines were scientific , but come to find out this number was just made up.

Audio Sound Bite: Anthony Fauci 7:12

There was no science behind it. There was no trial that looked at 10, versus 6, versus 3, versus not even worrying about it at all. Since there was no clinical trial going one way or the other, that's why it was accepted by the group.

Host: David Wheaton 7:12

That was Anthony Fauci. The next thing was wearing a mask. Oh, and maybe two masks is better, as if a cloth or paper mask was going to really protect someone. Here's Fauci flip-flopping back and forth on masking.

Audio Sound Bite: Anthony Fauci 7:22

So even if you are vaccinated, you should wear a mask. Even if you're fully vaccinated you are protected and you don't need to wear a mask indoors or outdoors.

Host: David Wheaton 7:42

Of course wearing the type of mask that most people were wearing at the time wasn't going to do much from stopping the spread of Covid. Then came the vaccine. This was the big moment. The experimental use authorized vaccine in late 2020, with all the big names telling us how effective the vaccine was, from President Biden to Fauci, Rochelle Wolinsky, even to Bill Gates.

Audio Sound Bite: Biden, Fauci, Wolinski, Biden, Bill Gates 8:03

These vaccines are highly, highly effective. Vaccinated people do not carry the virus, don't get sick. They're really, really good against variants. Everyone who takes the vaccine is not just protecting themselves, but reducing their transmission to other people and allowing society to get back to normal. Get your first shot, and when you're due for your second, get your second shot. If you're vaccinated, you're not going to be hospitalized, you're not going to be in an ICU unit, and you're not going to die.

Host: David Wheaton 8:31

So these are just blatant lies. Many, many people took the vaccine and still got COVID. Some took it and were harmed, or even died. And the coercion to take it was very strong. Listen to what Anthony Fauci says here.

Audio Sound Bite: Anthony Fauci 8:47

Legally, you're going to have schools, universities, and colleges are going to say, you want to come to this college buddy? You're going to get vaccinated. Lady, you're going to get vaccinated. Big corporations like Amazon and Facebook, and all those others are going to say "You want to work for us , you get vaccinated. And it's been proven, when you make it difficult for people in their lives, they lose their ideological convictions and they get vaccinated.

Host: David Wheaton 9:17

Not a nice person. Take the jab or else get punished. And the media dutifully repeated what the so-called experts were saying.

Audio Sound Bite: Media 9:27

When people are openly questioning the science. "Now is the time to do what you're told." "When I see someone out in the world not wearing a mask I instantly think you are a threat  , or you are selfish, or you are a COVID denier, and you definitely haven't been vaccinated. "And we're really seeing just how important it is to follow science." "Yes, exactly, and we need to listen to scientists."

Host: David Wheaton 9:52

That last person there was Greta Thunberg, the Swedish leftist who promotes another lie of human-caused climate change. Now, very tellingly, the expert of all experts, Anthony Fauci, was granted a pardon by President Joe Biden upon leaving office. Biden was obviously very concerned about the criminality of Fauci's actions. Now, fast forward to late last month, and the Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee called Fauci to testify. And all he would do is take the Fifth Amendment.

Audio Sound Bite: Senate Homeland Security 10:39

You may have had a 50 some year legacy of public service, but it ends in total and complete disgrace. So let me give you an opportunity to answer one question. Will you apologize? Just apologize to the people who you harmed through your actions. Will you say, um do you have the dignity to just say you're sorry?

Audio Sound Bite: Anthony Fauci 10:59

On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment to the constitution.

Audio Sound Bite: Senate Homeland Security 11:05

So you won't apologize to the military members who Joe Biden summarily dismissed from the military for not taking the vaccine?

Audio Sound Bite: Anthony Fauci 11:13

On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the Constitution.

Host: David Wheaton 11:20

Fauci would give that response over a hundred times in that Senate hearing. So with these audio clips as context, let's get straight to the interview with Steve Dace.

COVID Motives Without Grand Conspiracy

Host: David Wheaton 11:31

Looking back, Steve, do you think COVID was a scheme to keep Trump from winning a second term as president? Or was it, as some say, a trial run on worldwide governmental control? Was it about population control? What do you think looking back on that crazy era?

Guest: Steve Dace 11:53

I think it was about all of those things and more. I think in general, David, conspiracy theories don't work. The reason why is it requires an elevated view of human nature beyond what the scripture says we are capable of. You are asking a lot of people to agree in uniformity without any human nature, without any leaks. Sinister motivations and conspiracy are not the same thing. I'm a total depravity guy. I think lots of people do lots of terrible things for the very evil desires. I think that Anthony Fauci did a lot of what he did simply because his hands are on the murder weapon of the virus in the first place. I think he funded the research that created the virus. I think if you want to know what changed from the Fauci that throughout all winter until early March was giving very modest and turned out to be very accurate predictions of what the case fatality rate for COVID would be. And then all of a sudden he became a doom prophet. I think it's quite simple. He found out that it's not the China virus, that they were all over there in those Wuhan labs in those very densely populated areas attempting to create a vaccine, a preemptive vaccine for the next SARS and MERS level event. They were all partnered in it. His agencies funded the research. And when he found out that his hands were on the murder weapon, I think that's what caused him to act the way that he did. I think other nefarious agents thought, well, this is a way for us to now get ahead and essentially create a compliance regime. Let's find out which military people would really follow any order we gave them. Let's find out how much we can push the American people without having to fire any shots or or sign any treaties. Countries all over the world did this. I think there were lots of different things at play. I think a big pharma that's largely just captured institutions that were supposed to regulate them saw a massive opportunity at their own form of a money laundering scheme called Operation Warp Speed. And I think all those various motivations conspire together because of worldview or craven opportunity alignment. I don't believe in the Alex Jones. I don't think three people are running the whole show. I don't believe any of that. I just think that's not what human nature is capable of.

Host: David Wheaton 14:01

You were doing your show then. We were doing the Christian worldview at the time, 2021 and 22, wading into this news on a regular basis, seeing the reports coming out. You were making observations, no doubt, that wait a second, cloth masks. That obviously can't stop a virus. Six feet of social distancing, that just seems like a purely arbitrary number. And Fauci later admitted that it was just selected. The COVID vaccine itself was ineffective on keeping people from either getting the virus or transmitting it. That was just the case. We knew people that got the vaccine, but then got COVID. So obviously, we just through observation, you're seeing that everyone isn't dying of this disease either. Younger, healthier people are getting COVID. I got it, you got it, probably, didn't die of it. It was sickness and so forth. And yet, important people with important titles and scientists, it was like on a repeat, trust the science, do as you're told. Even in the Christian realm, people like Francis Collins of the NIH and Russell Moore of Christianity Today, others are pushing this on Christians. In retrospect, how do you think Christians should have been more discerning in all of this, considering the fact that all the quote unquote authorities and experts were saying trust the science?

Apologetics And The Duty To Think

Guest: Steve Dace 15:25

Peter tells us to always have a ready defense or offer up the reasons for the hope that we have. That word that he uses for a ready defense or reasons is apologia. And that's the Greek word by which we get apologetics today. In other words, there is an expectation that Christians are always, we are, we have the market cornered on truth, and our Lord is truth incarnate. And yet we are always, always, always is a tough word, man, but always, always expected to be ready to be able to defend why something is true. What you saw here was we don't have to give you a defense. We don't have to offer you any data. We don't have to offer you any gold standard double blind studies with control groups. We don't have to do any of that. We're just going to order it and force you to comply with it. If you don't like it, we'll just create a social credit system to shame you. Hey, you know what, why do you hate grandma? Why don't you trust science? Christianity brought critical thinking into this world. Socrates got assassinated, martyred for being a critical thinker. This is not a world that outside of the Christian ethic thinks very highly of critical thinking. Archaeologists are not out digging the Quran, David. They're not out digging Hindu texts, they're not out digging Buddhist texts. Why are they digging Christian texts? Because God literally said, Come find me. Ask, seek, knock. So Christianity brought critical thinking into this world, made it mainstream. There's a reason why we had a Protestant Reformation first and an Enlightenment second. There's a reason why we had a Protestant Reformation first and then Adam Smith, second. The powers of this world are not fans of critical thinking, because often what they want you to do goes against the most obvious truth of the universe. God is God and you're not Him. That's the obvious and most important truth in the universe. Well, governments like to be God, governments like to dictate. And so every government in the history of our species, until ours, claimed they either were chosen by God to rule or they were God themselves. That's the history of our species since Genesis chapter three. Critical thinking is inherent to the Christian worldview. You have to be a critical thinker to be a serious Christian. Your Lord was fully man and fully God. You're asked to bear the burdens of others. You're asked to die to live and to lose to gain. We introduce redemptive suffering to the planet. Suffering is a penalty in every other worldview on this planet and always has been. So critical thinking is inherent to the Christian worldview. And so it's not a surprise that the more we've departed from Christianity, the less able and willing to critical think we are. Much of what is called discipleship today, there's no real worldview formation, training, let alone testing. A lot of it is five steps to being a better husband, five steps to be a better wife, five steps to being a good steward, which is just another form of phaoserical legalism, actually. But since it's done with apple fritters and orange juice, no one recognizes it because it's not done with long robes and furrowed brows. Now anytime we attempt to edit God's word, either to add to it or take it away, that is by definition legalism. So we are the truth people. Christianity is not the endless asking of questions, it is the ceaseless seeking of answers. You know, they tried to do 100 years ago with the Spanish flu, they tried to do masks, and people are like, this is dumb, these don't work. And the scientists were like, You're right, they don't. And that's why you haven't been wearing masks every cold and flu season your entire life. Why did we do it here? Well, because we're not those people anymore. My people perish for a lack of knowledge. The church has taken off building a kingdom to build brands instead. Worldview is passe and kind of sounds a little religious-y to us.

Host: David Wheaton 19:02

What you're saying, Steve, is that if the church and individual Christians focus more on objective truth rather than subjective life experience, people would be more able to fend off the unrelenting deception we encounter.

Guest: Steve Dace 19:17

Truth is information that corresponds with reality. Now, the ultimate reality is God. So if God exists, He is the ultimate reality, He's the ultimate determiner of reality. What do we typically call people who deny reality? What do we typically call such people?

Host: David Wheaton 19:32

You call them either truth deniers or someone who's just a liar.

Guest: Steve Dace 19:37

Think more clinically, crazy, insane, right? I'm an accordion. You'd think that person's nuttier than a fruit loop, right? Right. This is where you and I maybe don't think so philosophically. If someone comes up to you and says, I'm an accordion, you're thinking, and yeah, yeah, yeah, and you're really nuttier than a fruit loop, yeah. Get ye to an insane asylum, right? Okay. And so if you deny God and therefore you're denying reality, you are crazy. The Bible says the fool says in his heart, there is no God, right? So you're insane, you're crazy, you cannot be trusted. Unfortunately, most of our institutions today, after this last generation, are controlled or dominated by those who don't believe in God and therefore are believe they can operate outside of reality.

Host: David Wheaton 20:22

Maybe you just hit on the first step for Christians to be able to discern any institution or person who doesn't believe in God, who has no sense of a biblical worldview, right there. That should be the first checkpoint. Like, okay, anything beyond this, we can't trust what they're saying.

Guest: Steve Dace 20:39

The first biological fact that's ever said about any human being that's ever lived, it's a boy, it's a girl. If they don't know what that means, then they can't be trusted on literally anything else ever.

Host: David Wheaton 20:50

I'm so glad you brought that up about the existence of God. That is the starting point. And Romans 1 says God is so evident in creation, you have to suppress that truth, not to deny the obvious.

Guest: Steve Dace 21:01

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, right? Right. What's the fear of the Lord? The recognition that God is God, I am not. And if I don't listen to Him, there'll be consequences in this life and the next. And that brings wisdom. So then if we're denying that, then what do we lack? Wisdom. That's right. What do therefore most of the people making most of the decisions around here lack? Wisdom

Host: David Wheaton 21:20

Steve Dace of Blaze Media is our guest, and we'll have more with him after this two-minute break on discerning truth from error in current events. I'm David Wheaton. You are listening to the Christian Worldview Radio program. You are invited to two events in September. The first is the Christian Worldview Speaker Series event on Saturday, September 12th at Stonehouse Farm in Jordan, Minnesota with Pastor Travis Allen of Grace Church in Greeley, Colorado, who is a longtime favorite guest on the program and former managing director of Grace To You and a U.S. Navy SEAL. We will discuss a wide range of current. Current events and issues of the faith, along with audience questions. Dinner will be served. Two days later, on Monday, September 14th, is the annual Overcomer Foundation Cup, golf and dinner event at White Bear Yacht Club near St. Paul, Minnesota. Golfers from near and far experience an enjoyable day of golf, meals, and fellowship, all in support of the Overcomer Foundation, which is the nonprofit organization that directs the Christian Worldview. More details and registration for both events is at TheChristianWorldview.org or call us at 888-646-2233. The July-August issue of the Christian Worldview Journal commemorates 250 years of America. Ed Vitagliano of American Family Association writes how foundations of our past provide a blueprint for future political and cultural renewal. My column is about the consequences of a nation rebelling against God and the blessings for repentance as described in Psalm chapter 2. There is lots of additional content, including the insert with resources for adults and children. The Christian Worldview Journal is a bi-monthly print and digital publication designed to sharpen your biblical worldview on current events and issues of the faith. The journal is sent to Christian Worldview Partners as a thank you for their support of this radio ministry. To become a Christian Worldview partner or to order an individual issue of the journal, go to TheChristianWorldview.org or 888-646-2233 or write to box 401-Excelsior, Minnesota 55331. Today's program and past programs, along with transcripts and short takes, are available at TheChristianWorldview.org. While there, you can also sign up for our weekly email and the Christian Worldview Journal print publication, order resources, and support the ministry. Our topic today is COVID, Charlie Kirk, and the need for Christian critical thinking. And our guest is Steve Dace, radio host and columnist for Blaze Media.

When Tone Replaces Truth

Host: David Wheaton 24:18

Steve, as I look back to that COVID era, anyone, not just Christians, to see someone in a suit and tie who's highly educated, who holds some big scientific position, someone who's articulate, who has a long history, the person's lauded by the media and the elites, and then have the conclusion that what that person is saying is actually wrong. How do Christians get around that particular thing? I'm speaking specifically referring to Anthony Fauci here because so much of what he was saying was wrong. So how do you not trust your eyes when your eyes are telling you that this person is worthy of being listened to when they're actually telling you something that's not being worthy of heeding?

Guest: Steve Dace 25:05

The people come to the great judge of Israel, Samuel, and they say, Give us a king so we can be like everybody else. They got a king that if you lined up what a king should look like or sound like, it would be Saul. Except like a lot of the other earthly kings, he also came with vanity, narcissism, defensiveness, paranoia. So the next go-around, God says, Hey, go out to this family called the Sons of Jesse, and I'll tell you who the next king's going to be. Even the judge Samuel himself, he starts asking God about the older sons who, again, square jawed, broad-shouldered, they looked the part, they're right out of central cast, and God's like, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope. And then God's like, I think we're missing one of the boys here, aren't we? And they go get the shepherd kid named David, and God says, That's my guy. Man judges from what they see on the outside, but God judges from what's on the inside, what's inside the heart. Now, in defense of the church, no one can rise above their own worldview, David. When we come out of an era where the effectiveness of your church was not determined by what you taught the people when they were there, but just how many people you could get to get there. You mentioned Christianity today. I would call it Christianity rarely, Christianity seldom, Christianity occasionally, Christianity never. When this is the basis of our teachers, I would argue there's never been a generation in the history of our species more obsessed with tone than this one is. The tone is everything. I gave a speech at the local Christian school to the senior class one day, and I said, How many of you really believe it's not what you say but how you say it? And of course, every kid raised their hands. I said, Let's test that. So I segregated the boys from the girls, and these kids are just a few weeks away from graduating into adulthood. So I talked to them like adults. And I said, Hey, young ladies, let's pretend 10 years from now, you're at home, your husband comes home from work. And he says, Oh my goodness, you're just as pretty as the day I met you. The house looks great, smells great. Is that my favorite meal? I can't thank you enough. And look, our kids are actually doing their homework and getting their chores done. How blessed am I? Oh, by the way, you need to know that new Hottie administrative assistant we hired, her and I had a really hot nooner today. But did I tell you how great you looked in your dress and how much I appreciate how good of a mom you are? And the room got really silent. And I said, What? What are you offended for? He said it nicely. He complimented you. He said it was great. He said, You're a great cook, you're a great wife, even better, mom. And he reminded you of how pretty he thinks you are. Yeah, he filled you in that he had an adulterous affair and betrayed your marriage, but he said it okay and complimented you. So it should be okay, right? It's not what you say, but how you say it. And everybody got real quiet real quick. When your entire metric of communication is done first on tone and not truth, you're going to lose truth. It's all about tone. Pastors in perpetual Hawaiian shirts, perpetual skinny jeans, perpetual niceness. That's the third tablet that Moses forgot off Mount Sinai, thou wilt be nice at all times. When we've gone through an entire generation of that, of course we're not equipped for guys who look nice and look like what we think nice ought to be and smart ought to be. I was told once by a Christian leader that I was too radical and I would never, I'd never rise to any level of success in this business, he warned me, being this way. And he goes, Can you think of anyone, anyone that God has blessed that is as blunt as you are? And I said, Well, John the Baptist was way more blunt than me, and Jesus says, No man born of woman is more blessed than he. He got quiet real quick. Our obsession with tone has just absolutely emasculated the church and has threatened to put us in the place where Jesus says the salt has lost its savor. And when that happens, it's of no use of anybody to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.

Host: David Wheaton 28:41

Very well and clearly said, Steve. Thank you for that. Steve Dace with us today on the Christian Worldview.

Charlie Kirk Case And Conspiracy Drift

Host: David Wheaton 28:47

I want to make a segue, Steve, to the second part of our interview here. So many Christians lost trust in government, in the healthcare industry. They lost trust in any kinds of institutions during the COVID era, then concluding rightly that these people are not worthy of trust. I mean, the healthcare industry has always been whatever you say, Doc, right? It's always been like that. But it's not that way anymore, even to this day. There's been a long after-effects. I look back at the COVID area. One of the most egregious things about the mandates that Fauci and the NIH or CDC was about, you can't get even near your dying relatives in the hospital. They're dying. People getting fired and thrown out of the military for not taking the COVID vaccine. It became a total authoritarian takeover. And so there's a certain segment of people that just distrust any sort of institutional leadership anymore. So now fast forward to 2025, last year on September 10th, and Charlie Kirk's at Utah Valley University doing an event. And just tragically and horrifically, he gets shot through the neck by an assassin on a rooftop. Just an unbelievable tragedy in our country. And then the man, Tyler Robinson, who was on the roof, gets arrested, and they're going through a trial now. I know you've been following it. And I just looked online as just to give a little summary of the trial so far, quoting evidence presented includes video of the suspect in a sniper position on the roof, DNA matching Tyler Robinson on the recovered Mauser model 98 bolt action rifle and related items, a note and text messages in which he allegedly confessed to planning and carrying out the killing, citing opposition to Charlie Kirk's views. And then there's witness and family statements as well. I mean, it's a turn the key and lock the door type case. And yet, I'm hearing from people and Christians, I know you've seen online with the example of Candace Owens, who was actually a friend at one point with Charlie Kirk, saying things daily on her very popular podcast that Robinson, no, he wasn't the shooter. He was rather a patsy. Israel was behind it. It was an inside job by Charlie Kirk's organization, TPUSA, or the Egyptian Air Force, or the French Foreign Legion was involved in this. I mean, just crazy things. But it's actually taken effect that the distrust that people have built into themselves now from the mainstream narrative, like during COVID, they're not trusting any of that anymore. They're always looking for an alternative theory. My question is do you think that is a worthwhile or worthy connection to make that people, because they lost trust in institutions during COVID are now not believing anything, even when the evidence is very obvious, like it is, it seems to be, at least to me, with this Charlie Kirk assassination case.

Guest: Steve Dace 31:49

In many cases, you've just replaced Anthony Fauci with Candace Owens. You just took the same Harvey Two-Face coin and flipped it, one side's marked and the other side's not. It's just the same coin, two sides of the same coin. You just replaced one source of ultimate trust with another who has demonstrated that they should not be trusted. I said something earlier that bears repeating. Christianity is not the ceaseless asking of questions. It's actually the devil. The first time we hear from the devil in all of human history, he shows up to say, Did God really say that? Are you sure that's what's really going on? I mean, we're just asking the first person, literally, the first being, literally, to ever say, I'm just asking questions was Satan. And so we don't deconstruct, we reconstruct. We're the resurrection people, not the nihilism people. We're not naive. We are the truth people. Christianity is not the endless asking of questions, it's the ceaseless seeking of answers. I cannot tell you how many people have said to me, Candace is just doing with Charlie's murder, what you did with COVID. And no, she's not. What I did with COVID was take their own data. As far as I know, I am the only human being on planet Earth out of 8 billion people that has written two best-selling books debunking this pandemic. Anthony Fauci wrote about me in his diary at night. Go look at the number one bestseller we had, Fauci and Bargain. Go look at all the footnotes. FDA, CDC, NIH, NAIID, Dutch Health Department. We used their own facts and sources against them. We didn't speculate, we didn't conjure, we just used the truth. And the truth was their own sources, their own data. I could have told you that Pax Lovid wasn't going to work when they did the first study on it at the University of Iowa because they published a study. The University of Iowa published a study, said the drug doesn't work. There's a reason why, it had a black box cancer warning on it. It doesn't work, but it's more likely to cause kidney failure than stop COVID. I didn't make that up. I didn't find that on a Reddit forum. I didn't uncover some secret plot or some Gnostic mantra. They published this, David. And I just published it. That's all I did. I didn't conjure the truth. I practiced a biblical worldview. I asked, I sought, I knocked. And then the truth opened the door. And if you were following us, you got a lot of information that sets you free. What she has done is the exact opposite. Just literally made things up whole cloth. In any other context, the evidence that you just cited would cause people to say, why are we even going forward with the trial here? What are we even doing? He confessed, his own family turned him in. None of them have come to his defense whatsoever. His own defense attorney said their main goal is to avoid him getting the death penalty. Well, Steve, there's multiple DNA uh markers on that gun. Yeah, but only one of those DNA markers is on the rooftop in a sniper's nest aiming his gun at my friend. The rest of them aren't. This is evidence. These aren't claims, it's evidence. And the reason her stuff sounds so dumb and moronic and it should be laughed at. And the people that are buying into it should be laughed at because it might wake them up. Don't take it seriously because they think they're serious. They need to be shown this is not serious. If your kid comes to you and says, I'm a salamander, let's sit down and discuss why you're not a member of the amphibian phylum. No! You're like, hey, no, you snot-nosed brat. I was there when you were conceived and born. I know you're not a salamander. Saw the womb you came out of, kid. You're not a salamander. We cannot become like Job's friends. Just endless chapters of pontificating over nothingness. After 40 chapters of that, God shows up and says, Shut your hole and know your role. You guys are all morons and idiots. Gird your loins like a man. Let Me drop some truth on you here. And I think that this stuff should just not even be entertained on any level at all. It's not serious at all. Her claims have been debunked a million and a half times. This is a woman scorn. She's a satanic slander of the brethren at this point. Just accused another cop of like being basically a crooked cop the other day and kind of had to take that back the next day. Literally nothing she says has been correct. And you want some common sense? Ask a simple question. You mean to tell me Candace Owens, who never went to Utah, never's attempted to go meet with Tyler Robinson. She cares more about Tyler Robinson's fate than his entire family does. And his attorneys? You honestly need a double-digit IQ to believe this. And I think there are moments where we just look at people like Paul does and says, You are a son of the devil, where people are so deceptive and what they're going to do is take so many people with them that they have to be confronted in very, very stark terms. Otherwise, when Jesus says about the end of days, the deception will be so rampant in those days, even the elect would be deceived if the Lord did not shorten them. One of my favorite quotes from Augustine There are many sheep without, many more wolves within. What is a pastor's job? Feed the sheep, confront the wolves. There needs to be way more wolf confronting these days.

Host: David Wheaton 36:41

All I can say is amen and preach it, brother. You're absolutely corrrect on this. It's hard to even fathom how people are being drawn into what is so patently obvious about this particular case. It's not a good thing. It makes them easily succeptible to the next thing that comes down the road in future when there's even more deception.

Host: David Wheaton 36:43

Using Their Data Against Them

Host: David Wheaton 37:01

Before I ask you the next question, I want to circle back to one of your books about the COVID era using their own data, like with the CDC. I was looking up today. How many COVID deaths were there? Well, the CDC says 1.2 million, but that's according to how they define a death. So how how did you use their data?

Guest: Steve Dace 37:25

They stratified it all, they published it all. It was all out there the whole time. Okay. What went on more than anything else was a media cover-up. The media just didn't report this stuff. This was just a flat-out media censorship industrial complex. And social media punished YouTube. I'm I still can get no traction on YouTube six years later because of the punitive residual punishment for how much work I did debunking their own narratives. I once published an article from the New York Times on the PCR testing they used to detect a COVID sample. And the New York Times did even a study in the summer of 2020 that said we are amplifying and magnifying these samples to the point that you could find COVID literally anywhere if you wanted to. I just put that on my Facebook page. Facebook banned me for 24 hours just for posting a link to a New York Times article I never wrote. On August 8th, 2021, Rochelle Walinsky, the head of the CDC, went on CNN and admitted to Wolf Blitzer August 8th. On national television, the vaccines don't work. They no longer stop the spread of COVID. And if you're fully vaccinated, you can both spread and get COVID. She said this August 8th. There weren't tons of headlines about that all over the world. And almost exactly 30 days later is when President Biden issued his wicked vaccine mandate. So before we even get to the constitutional question, his own CDC said he was mandating a vaccine that didn't work. They knew. And how do I know that they knew? I followed the Bilderberg group to a secret basement on the ninth level of the planet Funkatron and uttered a secret incantation that only I could know because the Gnostic gods gave me special insight. No, I I just watched the clip of Rochelle Wallinsky on my Grabian clip aggregator that literally anyone could purchase for 10 bucks a month and watched it for myself and verified the timestamp. Real special insight there, Dave. I mean, real hard work. That's what I did. By the way, can I just say the reason why I'm being so forceful on this? I'm trying to break through whatever mental concrete is in this audience. All right. Some of you are in deep, are deeply being tempted into almost cultic slavish levels of deception. And I just don't think, frankly, asking you, do you want to refill on your orange juice this morning is gonna do it. And so this is me desperately trying to get through to you before you end up way far down the rabbit hole, Alice.

Host: David Wheaton 39:38

Because it's even going to get more deceptive in the future. With artificial intelligence, the Antichrist, everything moving towards that direction. It's hard to even know it's real. You watch a video online today. You don't know whether it's real or fake or not. So you really have to have high levels of discernment now, and you get that through understanding the truth very carefully. And the truth is the word of God. It's like the old counterfeiter thing, right? How do counterfeiters test what dollar is real, what's not? They don't study all the fakes, they study the real thing over and over again so they can immediately identify the fake. Steve Dace of Blaze Media is our guest. In the final segment coming up, we'll discuss two troublesome issues: the war in Iran and the rise of Islam in America. I'm David Wheaton. You are listening to the Christian Worldview Radio program. The July-August issue of the Christian Worldview Journal commemorates 250 years of America. Ed Vitagliano of American Family Association writes how foundations of our past provide a blueprint for future political and cultural renewal. My column is about the consequences of a nation rebelling against God and the blessings for repentance as described in Psalm chapter 2. There is lots of additional content, including the insert with resources for adults and children. The Christian Worldview Journal is a bi-monthly print and digital publication designed to sharpen your biblical worldview on current events and issues of the faith. The journal is sent to Christian Worldview Partners as a thank you for their support of this radio ministry. To become a Christian Worldview partner or to order an individual issue of the journal, go to TheChristianWorldview.org or call 888-646-2233 or write to box 401-Excelsior, Minnesota 55331. You are invited to two events in September. The first is the Christian Worldview Speaker Series event on Saturday, September 12th at Stonehouse Farm in Jordan, Minnesota with Pastor Travis Allen of Grace Church in Greeley, Colorado, who is a longtime favorite guest on the program and former managing director of Grace to You and a U.S. Navy SEAL. We will discuss a wide range of current events and issues of the faith, along with audience questions. Dinner will be served. Two days later, on Monday, September 14th, is the annual Overcomer Foundation Cup golf and dinner event at White Bear Yacht Club near St. Paul, Minnesota. Golfers from near and far experience an enjoyable day of golf, meals, and fellowship, all in support of the Overcomer Foundation, which is the nonprofit organization that directs the Christian Worldview. More details and registration for both events is at TheChristianWorldview.org or call us at 888-646-2233. Welcome back to the Christian Worldview. I'm David Wheaton. Be sure to visit TheChristianWorldview.org where you can sign up for our weekly email and the Christian Worldview Journal print publication, order resources for adults and children, and support the ministry. Our guest today is Steve Dace, author, radio host, and columnist for Blaze Media.

Iran War And Election Pressure

Host: David Wheaton 42:58

Steve, when you were last on the program several months ago, I asked you about the situation in Iran. It's nowhere near resolution now. We're in mid-August, Steve. Maybe it does segue from the discussion about COVID sun because in his last year of his presidency then in 2020, the whole COVID thing came up and that totally derailed his presidency being re-elected. And now here we are again coming to the midterms where Republicans have control of Congress, and now he's embroiled in this war with Iran. Has he been fooled or pulled into another electoral defeat in these midterms as he was with COVID during that general election in 2020? And I ask that, not criticizing him, because what is he supposed to do? Knowing the fact that Iran, if it's in fact true, I don't know, but just going from news reports that they were or they are close to developing a nuclear weapon, no one wants that. What is he supposed to do about that? And what does he do with this situation now hitting to the midterms, being still in this war?

Guest: Steve Dace 44:00

15 days to flatten Iran, 30 days to slow the spread of Iran in Hormuz, 35 days until we start voting in the midterm elections. We're in a complete quagmire. And I was against this from the very beginning, and I was against this as somebody who detests Iran. What should have happened from the beginning is if you thought there was another credible nuclear site, then just have another Operation Midnight Hammer, eviscerate it, vaporize it, and then install even tougher economic sanctions than we had before. But we were never going to topple the regime. We don't have the resolve to do it. They want to control Iran more than we do. You want to talk sectarian nightmares like Iraq and Afghanistan. Iran's an even way bigger country, way more sectarian. You have the Kurds in the north that want their own nation. You have one of the largest Shia Muslim populations in the world. You have a large secular population of the youth that were protesting last winter. You have two massive standing armies, the Iranian Revolutionary Guard, which is basically just a terrorist revolving door. You have the Iranian national army. We have no idea what would come next, even if we did topple the regime. So I don't know what he's doing. I'm not sure he does. Our talking points change all the time. Somehow we ended up now, we're the ones blockading Hermuz, and then Iran is, and now we are again. All I know is this, we have to focus on our own country here. And we are poised to elected an Islamist as senator of Michigan, nominate an absolute pagan communist as the governor of Wisconsin. We don't have any more time than this. I love the nation of Israel dearly. I have been one of the most vocal people standing up against the anti-Semitism, trying to infest the right. But we cannot fight more alongside Israel than we fight for our own country. It is time to come home and win the war at home. If we don't, we're going to get annihilated in these midterms.

Islam’s Rise And Political Will

Host: David Wheaton 45:41

That's my final question for you, Steve. It has to do with this year. All of a sudden, like the Marxist Islamists have just come out of the closet, so to speak. We saw it with Mamdani, but this year they're winning primaries in Michigan. This man, Abdul Al-Sayed, he's now going to possibly be a U.S. senator if he wins there. He's very radical left Islamist Marxists. Same as you mentioned in Wisconsin as well. And here in Minnesota, there's a huge, as you know, a huge Somali population, Somali Muslim population here spreading out into the suburbs from Minneapolis. There's a suburb south of the Twin Cities called Lakeville. And recently they just voted in favor of the construction of a second mosque in this suburb of Lakeville. As it's been going on in Texas, the same kind of story in a different place now. And I read what the mayor of Lakeville, Minnesota said, and he said this on Facebook. "The discussions surrounding the proposed mosque in Lakevile has raised strong opiions, and I respect the right of every resident to express concerns about traffic , parking, public safety, or any other legitimate land use issue. These are appropriate topics for public discussion for city officials to evaluate." Next paragraph. What cannot guide a city's decision, however, is whether we personally approve of a particular religion or whether a faith tradition is popular or unfamiliar. The United States Constitution guarantees the free exercise of religion, and governments are prohibited from treating one faith differently from another. Those protections apply equally to Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Sikhs, atheists, and every other belief systems. He finishes by saying the commitment to constitutional rights, religious liberty, and equal treatment is not only good government, it reflects the best traditions of our community. He says, quote unquote, all the right things were about religious liberty in our country is that. That's why Christians came over here to escape the religious authoritarianism over in England and so forth. And then as you read the comments to this, people were like, Yeah, right on, you know, it's the Christians who are the ones who are trying to force their religion on people. I mean, you couldn't believe the comments uh about this article. Most people were just in favor of what he just said. It just sounds good and right. We have a constitution and people can practice our faith. But you know, and I know what the history of Islam is around the world and now what's taking place in America. Look at the Western Europe and the UK or France or or Germany and so forth. There is a stated intention by Islam to take over the world by force, if necessary, to convert the world to Islam. You said actually online, you said, what benefit is it to native-born Texas? You're talking about the same situation there, a mosque in McKinney, Texas, let alone native-born Americans overall, for there to be a massive Islamic center in this town or any town in America. My question, Steve, is do you think most Americans are even aware of what is happening with the rise of Islam in our country? And then I think more importantly is on what basis that would withstand legal challenge can this rise or spread of Islam be stopped in this country?

Guest: Steve Dace 48:54

Number two is way easier. We're not a nation of laws, never have been. We're a nation of political will, and we always will be. If we're just going to do whatever man-made courts and systems tell you, then tell the Puritans to hop on the Mayflower. Stay over there in the UK and make sure to preach the uh the king-approved sermons from the Church of England and don't even bother. Tell your founding fathers, hey, you know what, pony up that stamp tax. In fact, don't just keep those British soldiers in your homes. M ake sure to just hand them over your daughters and for their smoke breaks and make sure to cook their tea and crupits for them, and maybe even let them just go ahead and sleep in your bed. We're not in a country founded by the keeping of laws. In fact, your founders, the British, thought we were gonna do that. Well, these are really common good Englishmen. We'll have tea at nine, and then we'll meet out in the fields at 11pm for a proper hour of shooting. We'll gather our dead, break for lunch, and we'll see you again at 1:30. Your ancestors said, screw that. I'm gonna hide in this tree. I'm gonna shoot you in the back, and then I'm gonna run. That's why you have a country. They did that. Paul says in Romans 13, give honor to whom honor is owed. The state is not owed this honor of declaring who is God and what is a religion and what is not. You should ask that official if someone wants to bring back the old pagan religion of child sacrifice, is that religious freedom or not? He's of course gonna say no. Okay, so right away we acknowledge and there are some limits on what religious freedom is or it is not, right? Well, what's unique about the religion of child sacrifice? Well, what it preaches, what it wants to do, violates other God-given rights. Agreed. And that's exactly what Islam has done in every single culture it's ever dominated for the 1400 year history of this religion. And that's what it'll do to you and do to your state. That's what it's done to all the other Western nation states that it's been allowed to invade. And so you won't get this done at all following any rules or procedures. You're gonna because the rules are stacked against you. It's the devil's rules. Heads I win, tails you lose. How did COVID end? David, was there like a conclave or a congressional bill that ended COVID? Is that what happened? No. It ended because enough people had realized they were being lied to and stopped complying and they realized they couldn't enforce the stuff anymore. So it just kind of went away. Ultimately, this is what it will take to end this too. The official systems are all stacked against you. And the number one thing, though, everybody within the sound of my voice, this is probably a good place to close it on. Everybody within the sound of my voice is gonna have to make a decision. Do you want people who hate you and hate your God to think you're a racist, or do you want to save and preserve this last best hope for humanity, this side of eternity? So there's no point talking any other strategies, no point discussing any other options on the table until we answer that question first. If we can't answer that question first, then there aren't any other answers.

Host: David Wheaton 51:33

It doesn't take great discernment as we've been talking about today to see where this is going and where it will end up. Just put some time behind us here and it's not looking good. So time to be a whole lot stronger and more vocal. And Steve, we appreciate that you do that. You speak with such clarity. We appreciate your tone. We love your tone. That's why that's why I love to have you on the Christian World of your Radio program. We don't need to kind of guess at what you're trying to say. And we just thank you for coming on and wish all of God's best and grace to you and your family.

Guest: Steve Dace 52:02

I appreciate that. And uh same to everybody in this audience. And I promise my kids think I'm a nice, fun, loving guy. I promise. So thank you.

Final Takeaways And Closing

Host: David Wheaton 52:09

Again, our guest today has been Steve Dace, author, radio host, and columnist for Blaze Media. We have links to his radio program and books at our website, TheChristianWorldview.org. Just a reminder that we are now four weeks away from the Christian Worldview speaker series event on Saturday, September 12th, and the Overcomer Foundation Cup Golf and Dinner event on Monday, September 14th. These events are in Minnesota, and we'd love to see you at one or both. You can register at our website, thheCristianWorldview.org, or give us a call at 888-646-2233. Thank you for joining us today on the Christian Worldview and for your support of this nonprofit radio ministry. Until next time, think biblically, live accordingly, and stand firm. The mission of the Christian Worldview is to sharpen the biblical worldview of Christians and to proclaim the good news of Jesus Christ. We hope today's broadcast encouraged you toward that end. To hear a replay of today's program, order a transcript, or find out what must I do to be saved, go to TheChristianWorldview.org or call toll-free 888-646-2233. The Christian Worldview is a listener-supported, nonprofit radio ministry furnished by the Overcomer Foundation. To make a donation, order resources, become a Christian Worldview partner, sign up for our weekly email, or the Christian Worldview Journal, print publication, or to contact us, go to TheChristianWorldview.org, call 888-646-2233, or write to box 401 Excelsior, Minnesota 55331. Thanks for listening to the Christian Worldview.